Mastering Green Industry Sales with Neal Glatt

Robert
00:00
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the I am landscape Growth podcast, where entrepreneurs help entrepreneurs grow faster, better, and stronger in the green industry, from leadership to sales to recruiting and operational excellence. We cover the topics holding entrepreneurs back and share how to get past those bottlenecks with the best in the industry. I’m your host, Rob Murray, co founder and CEO of Intrigue, a digital marketing company focused on helping landscape companies grow. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome back to another episode of the I am Landscape Growth podcast. I have an awesome guest, Neal Glatt, on the show. Neil, thank you for doing this.

Neal
00:36
My pleasure.

Robert
00:37
Neil has, like most guests, a very cool perspective on the green industry, being in it for quite some time and helping people, like, really ramp up sales. So what we’re going to be going through today is definitely not a lesson of academia. This is going to be kind of field tested stuff that Neil not only has done in the past, but also teaches folks these days. He’s a Gallup certified coach, co founder of Grow the bench, and owner of Neil Glatt, of course, self entitled Neil. Again, thanks so much for doing this, man.

Neal
01:06
Yeah, man, I always love the opportunity to talk about sales, so it’s who I am, you know? Sales guy.

Robert
01:14
Sweet. So then why don’t you just take us through that quickly? Cole’s note summary. You know, where you started off in the green industry, and you know what you’re up today and what’s going on now.

Neal
01:25
Yeah. So I got into the green industry because I graduated college in 2009. It was like a particularly crappy time to find a job. And I didn’t know this industry was an industry. I was just looking for a sales gig and got introduced to the industry. Worked for a small company outside Detroit that was doing landscape and snow removal. Really, really liked the snow removal. I liked the adrenaline rush of it, the logistics, management, the green in the green side. I wasn’t really smart enough for, like, I couldn’t. I couldn’t wrap my head around all the plant names and how to take care of them and stuff. And so I made a remark to Phil Harwood, who’s now my business partner at the time.

Neal
02:06
And I said, you know, I really love the snow, but not so much the green. And I’m not sure that this is going to be my home forever. what do you think? And he goes, you gotta meet this guy, Jay case out of Boston. Cause he wants to do just snow. And so I did. and I ended up moving into Jason’s guest room in, July 2010, and, worked for him for seven years and took the company from one pickup truck to over $40 million a year in snow revenue. and, man, it was a lot of snow. It was a wild ride. I got to work as part of, you know, the greatest team ever. drive the sales effort, with a lot of help, but also be able to have my hand in operation.

Neal
02:53
So it was a lot of fun. And then in 2017, I decided to make a change and try and help some other companies and went on my own and, wasn’t really sure what that looked like. But today it’s a few things. we have this great online education, growthebench.com, which is a fantastic, affordable, easy way to train mid managers and senior leaders at your company on green industry topics, everything from sales to management to hiring to succession planning. And it’s all in short, digestible 15 minutes videos that you can watch right on your phone. So that’s really cool. We built out that library to several hundred videos. And then we do two day events with our snow fighters Institute brand, where we do just a two day deep dive into operations or management.

Neal
03:47
We have five events a year with that all over the country. And then personally, I get to consult senior leaders and salespeople. And for companies who don’t have a sales manager, I serve as their sales manager on a fractional basis. For companies who want to get their first salesperson, I make sure that they don’t make a really expensive mistake. And for companies that are, you know, doing okay, but just want to be doing better in terms of sales and profit, I help them, you know, shoot through the stratosphere of results there.

Robert
04:18
Very cool, man. I appreciate that. That was a lot jam packed in, you know, a two and a half minute description. Very concise. So, theme of the podcast is, well, you know, what’s the primary growth constraint, you know, facing entrepreneurs in the green industry? So, you know, we did a pre call for this. I thought your perspective on it was pretty awesome. And no one’s really mentioned this. This is, I think, interview number 18 or something like that. And no one’s even come close to mentioning what you’ve mentioned.

Neal
04:45
Yeah, I think I left the catalyt back, but I was going to say selling. And I know that you have so many people who are here talking about ability to hire, an ability to inspire, an ability to know what you’re doing in the field. And, like, they’re right. Those are primary growth constraints. But it still starts with a sale. Right.

Robert
05:05
And I mean, maybe. And when you said it, though, like, if I ask you that question point blank, if you could articulate it a little bit, then we’ll unpack the whole thing because it’s layered. Right. So what is the primary growth constraint, you see, for entrepreneurs in the green industry?

Neal
05:18
The ability to sell your service at the right price. At the right price? Yes, at the right price.

Robert
05:25
Because anybody can sell cheap. I can hire kids from high school to take orders, but to be somebody that’s in a position to maintain margin, healthy enough to hire awesome people to do great work, it’s a totally different story. So what does that mean for you? Like, how do you see that come into play? What do you, where do you see people having issues?

Neal
05:45
So, you know, a lot of times they get caught up in being compared to other companies prices. And I’ve talked to way too many companies to know that so many people have no idea how to even estimate. Right.

Robert
05:59
Yeah. And not even the sale part, just the actual pricing part.

Neal
06:03
Yeah. So you know, when you get told, oh, you’re three times your competitor price, oh, you’re 40% more. Like, that doesn’t mean anything except that the other person doesn’t know how to estimate. Right. And so when that becomes the market price and your strategy for selling, it’s really problematic. And then look at, let’s start with the issues that people face, right?

Robert
06:26
Yeah.

Neal
06:27
They can’t pay enough. They can’t pay people what they want to come work for them.

Robert
06:31
Right.

Neal
06:31
Right. They say there’s nobody who wants to work, but in reality, they get plenty of applications and they say, oh, we’re paying 20 an hour. And in their market, people are saying, I need 35.

Robert
06:41
Yeah.

Neal
06:41
Right. That’s because you didn’t sell it for enough money. That’s the only reason why, if you had sold it for enough money to do the job, to pay the people, then you wouldn’t have an issue finding your people. Right. you’re saying, oh, we have to lay people off because you can’t sell a different service. That’s the only reason why. Right. Oh, you know, we can’t get enough equipment. Well, you can buy whatever you want, but it’s expensive right now. Right. And so on and on down the line, it all comes to, do you have enough going in? Now, the problem is when you do sign a contract, when you agree to do something for a price that is the fixed best case scenario of your profitability.

Neal
07:21
And then there’s all these other factors, like weather, like productivity, like breakdowns, like warranty work that’ll erode at it potentially. Right. And things go wrong, and that happens. But you can’t ever outperform what you agreed to when the contract was signed.

Robert
07:36
Right.

Neal
07:36
There’s a fixed profitability ceiling there, so the growth constraint. Really. Right. What’s. What’s the core issue of the constraint is, do I have enough money in this contract? And most people are margin, not just money.

Robert
07:51
Right?

Neal
07:52
Correct. Right. And most people are out there not getting enough profit and not being able to articulate their services in a way that make it justifiable.

Robert
08:06
What you said, though, before, too. Right. Like this idea that everybody’s, you know, looking like they’re the same when someone’s looking for a quote.

Neal
08:12
Yeah.

Robert
08:13
You know, we talk about this a lot, too. Like, you know, full service design, build, maintenance landscaping company.

Neal
08:19
Okay.

Robert
08:21
There’s just no position with that position because everybody is a full service, design, build maintenance landscape company. And so what. What are some of the things that you help people understand and then implement to, like, kind of position themselves better out of the gate so that they’re more of, like, the choice instead of, like, a choice.

Neal
08:41
Yeah. So the first thing is make sure you’re talking to the right, type of people, the right potential customer. Right. So, Rob, you guys do amazing work with target marketing. Right. That was your. Your description of a process and your insistence on how important it is what made us become friends after we did an interview on a different podcast. Right. I was like, these guys get it. You got to know exactly who you’re going after, and that’s it. Because you have maximum value for one type of client. Right. And so.

Robert
09:12
And maximum efficiency, too. Right.

Neal
09:14
On the operation side, that also. Right. and they. They probably go hand in hand. Right. but you got to figure out what your company actually does the best, and then who’s going to value that the most. And those are the only people you should ever talk to. So, I was just helping a company, get into commercial snow sales, the past few months, and, they’re like, man, I keep getting these leads for churches, and they keep telling me I’m three times the person that they went with. And it’s like, well, they’re clearly not your target because they’re not valuing 24/7 service. Right. They need service Sunday mornings and Wednesday afternoons, probably.

Robert
09:58
Right. And Christmas Eve.

Neal
10:00
And Christmas Eve. Yeah. And. And you keep losing to probably a parishioner who’s, like, viewing this as their method of tithing, right? Like, this is their service, their give back to their community. So let’s just make a rule that we don’t even talk to these people. We politely explain the fact that every single time we’ve ever tried to talk to someone, they only seem to want service a little bit at the time. And we really are built around total service all the time. And you could probably find someone in your congregation to do this at a fraction of what I would charge you.

Robert
10:34
Yeah, it was a really cool perspective, too. Right? If you look at office buildings, they only need it nine to five, right? If you look at, like, a hospital, they need it 24/7 you look at hotels, they need it all the time. You know, there’s facilities that do need 24/7 maintenance from that perspective that you’re referring to.

Neal
10:54
Right, right. So, you know, I just got a question from another company that was like, hey, we’re really struggling with the second shift. And it’s like, well, who are your customers? What do they need? They describe this whole mix of customers, and to your point, they’re kind of trying to run three different operations. Right. At the same time, and then they’re finding that it’s difficult as a result. Right, right. And so, you know, for most companies I talked to, there is essentially unlimited market. Like, there’s so much property, theres so much need for our services. This industry is so dense in terms of demand and so fractured in terms of supply that youre hard pressed to tell me and legitimately say, like, we own all of the potential market that we could possibly have.

Robert
11:43
Right.

Neal
11:44
The issue is you dont know how to break through and how to convey yourself in the right light to win those right contracts, somebody else is doing what you want.

Robert
11:53
So let’s go through it then. Like, you know, for an audience of entrepreneurs listening to this, and they’re like, I want to get started. I want to become better at sales. Like, where? Where do you start?

Neal
12:05
Okay, so number one is prove it with your daily behaviors. So are you calling people all day, every day? Because sales is hard work, man. I’m I’m going to compare sales to something else that I do, which is running marathons. All right? Running a marathon is shockingly uncomplicated. All you have to do is for about five months, or if you’re really fat, like I was when I started, eleven months, run four or five days a week. That’s it. That’s all you have to do. And it will get progressive. It’s so simple. Right. You just have to do it every day. It’s not easy. So are you going to have the discipline? I mean, I’m talking to people. I’m coaching them. We’re setting a goal of 100 calls a week. That means 20 a day.

Neal
12:55
You know how fast you can dial 20 phone numbers and talk to probably only two or three people? Yeah.

Robert
13:02
What do you do? What, 1012 an hour?

Neal
13:04
More than that. I mean, 15. I need one to 2 hours of your day every day where you’re going to give me all. You got to sit down and face the rejection and make those phone calls.

Robert
13:14
Yeah.

Neal
13:14
Right. And you will improve its sales.

Robert
13:18
And this is very much commercially focused. Right.

Neal
13:20
B.

Robert
13:20
Two B commercial.

Neal
13:20
Sure. Commercially focused. Right. If it’s residential, you know, you got to go hire Rob. You got to get set up on the, you know, customer acquisition strategy with the pay to click and all that stuff. But you still. Maybe it’s homeowner networking, or, you know, cold call is just one example. There’s whatever your lead gen is, but you got to do that every day. Someone tells me, oh, we can’t cold call. We’re doing networking. No problem, man. You are you networking every day? Right, right. Like, you can’t be part of a monthly b and I meeting. You got to be part of, like, 18 of them.

Robert
13:55
Yeah, yeah.

Neal
13:56
Right, yeah.

Robert
13:57
And get out of the b and I group.

Neal
13:59
But anyway, that, too. Yeah. Effectiveness is the second thing, but honestly, I don’t even care about effectiveness. The people who show up every day ineffectively will outperform the ones who try and just do one effective thing once a month because they’re heading.

Robert
14:15
That’s such a good perspective, though, right?

Neal
14:17
Totally.

Robert
14:17
And, like, in the same thing, you go to the gym, I don’t even care if you know what you’re doing. If you go to the gym every.

Neal
14:21
Day, you’re going to get in shape every day.

Robert
14:23
If you have great form and you go once a month, it ain’t happening.

Neal
14:26
Correct.

Robert
14:27
I love it.

Neal
14:27
Correct. So, so show me with your daily behaviors. I don’t need all day. It’s. It’s the 80 20 rule all the time. I just want 20% of your time to be focused on driving 80% of sales efforts.

Robert
14:40
Yeah.

Neal
14:41
And that’s. That’s all I care about. And. And, you know, there’s real science to back this up. Right. So, when you interact with a potential customer. Right. In any sort of touch point, and that could be the postcard the webpage, the email, the cold call. Like any interaction you have, your chance of a sale increases with every interaction through at least eight interactions.

Robert
15:07
Right.

Neal
15:08
Most salespeople abandon after one and a half interactions.

Robert
15:13
Yeah. That’s an insane, right?

Neal
15:15
I talk to salespeople all the time. They go, oh, I called them and they didn’t answer. Okay. They go, did you leave a voicemail? And I said, no. I go, so you did nothing? You didn’t even send a potential out there for them to see or hear? Yeah, right. Why wouldn’t we leave a voicemail? Yeah, like, somebody’s gonna see a missed call and maybe with a company name and feel so desperate they’re gonna call you back. Right? No, they would have already called you, man. That’s an inbound situation. Right. So we call people every single day. If that feels aggressive, call them every single week. Right. And, I want my salespeople to be super aggressive in their behaviors, and then the nicest people ever in their conversation.

Robert
16:08
Very cool, right?

Neal
16:10
So, like, every single call. And by the way, this is personal and professional for me. If you. If I called you next week, if. If were hanging out of your cell, we’re going to be at the same show. I want to have dinner with you, Rob, just to hang out. I’m going to call you’re going to answer the phone. You’re. You probably will see my name. You’ll be like, oh, hey, Neil, what’s up? I’d be like, hey, Rob, not. Not much. I’m not catching a bad time. Am I always?

Robert
16:35
Yeah.

Neal
16:36
When I call my wife, I ask her if I’m not catching her at a bad time. Am I right? It’s. It’s so ingrained. It’s respectful. And this is why people hate salespeople, because they’re disrespectful. They call you at the office, and then you tell them now it’s not great. And they go, oh, no problem. Let me talk as fast as possible, try and tell your pitch in a last ditch effort, and I’ll completely ignore what you said.

Robert
16:59
Right? Yeah, that’s great. Well, I mean, it’s so beautiful, too, right? We always talk about this thing that people hate to be sold, but they love to buy.

Neal
17:05
Yeah.

Robert
17:06
So it’s like, how do you create an environment of people buying things instead of trying to push it on people?

Neal
17:10
Hundred percent. Yeah. So. So we are going to be super aggressive to get them live and do an interaction, and then we’re gonna be so on their schedule in terms of getting permission. And when they go, now is not a great time. Be like, no problem. When should I call you back?

Robert
17:26
Yeah.

Neal
17:27
And, and half the time they’re like, I don’t even know what this is regarding yet. Be like, well, yeah, no problem, but it’s not a good time. So when should I call you back?

Robert
17:35
Yeah, like latest afternoon or tomorrow morning, do whatever, right?

Neal
17:40
And you know, when someone says I’m not interested, don’t ever call me again. Like, I promise I won’t. We will put a whole thing in our CRM. We’ll never call you and we’ll respect that. Right.

Robert
17:52
That’s cool. So, so you got behaviors. Pig headed discipline.

Neal
17:56
Totally.

Robert
17:57
And then you got people that are like, well, cold calls. And cold calling doesn’t work. Every time I call somebody, they always hang up the phone. They always say on the phone, they’re always angry, blah, blah. Cold calling doesn’t work. So then transition into this technique and this, you know, being polite. What are some of the things that, you know, what do you say to people, the naysayers that say things like, calling people doesn’t work?

Neal
18:16
The naysayers don’t have enough calls to show me it doesn’t work. I mean, just listen. If you, if you give me three weeks of solid discipline, real discipline and positive effort, and it doesn’t work, like, I will refund you my consulting fees. Yeah, you know, we can work on whatever you want to do. And for sure, it’s not every market, you have to know how to approach your market. Sure. Well, probably not calling homeowners that, sure.

Robert
18:52
But, you know, honestly though, it reminds me of this story. So there was this insurance company on the west coast, and they hired a consultant to come in and to find out why they were flat in sales. You know, this is like $100 million plus insurance company with like, whatever, 50, 60 salespeople, who knows? Anyway, consultant comes in, you know, 72 hours, three days working on this thing, comes back and he says, you’re not making enough calls.

Neal
19:14
Yep.

Robert
19:15
And they’re like, you gotta be shitty. Me? You just, you know, we just paid you x dollars, like, you know, five figures for three days, whatever it was, to tell us we’re not making enough calls, like, get out of here. He’s like, no, I’ll prove it to you. You give me mid salespeople, mid performance salespeople, put me into a cold neighborhood. They’re selling life insurance. So he takes 1010 people in the middle of the pack and they go cold call knocking on doors in a cold neighborhood, you know, residential door knocking. And their script is, you wouldn’t happen to be looking for life insurance, would you?

Neal
19:46
Yeah.

Robert
19:46
And they can do about eight doors an hour or ten doors an hour for 8 hours. About 80. 80 doors a day person. So 800 doors a day. And they’re signing up between five and ten policies a day.

Neal
20:00
Absolutely.

Robert
20:03
It comes back after a week, and they’ve got whatever. Between 25 and 50 new policies with this group one week in a cold neighborhood.

Neal
20:11
Yeah. And they’re super respectful about it. And you know what I love is with that specifically, they are abandoning a dead sale as quickly as possible.

Robert
20:22
Yeah.

Neal
20:22
Go run one question, yes or no? If the answer is no, they’re just going next door.

Robert
20:27
Yeah.

Neal
20:28
And. And what I see in this industry all the time is phenomenal workmanship. I mean, pure artistry and whatever it is. Right. If you’re design.

Robert
20:40
Oh, yeah.

Neal
20:40
If you’re horticulture care, if it’s hardscapes, if it’s normal, like, I mean, amazing technical work. And you assume, or people assume that’s what the customer actually wants, and it just isn’t that. And I hear all the time, oh, man. Brightview’s got this account, and they suck, and we do so much better, and I don’t understand why I can’t just get in the door. You’re assuming that’s what the customer wants.

Robert
21:06
Right.

Neal
21:07
And it’s not necessarily the case.

Robert
21:10
So then what do you do as a salesperson? Trying to figure out what a customer wants. That’s a good, that’s a good, you know, perspective to take.

Neal
21:18
Yeah. So I would ask your existing customers first, what do they actually value that you do? Right. So we all have those customers who are like, you’re amazing. Like, every time you interact with them, they’re like, man, we love giving you money. Right, right. And I would sit down with each of them and say, why exactly? Because that list is probably different than how you view your business. And if you can, so simple to do. So simple.

Robert
21:47
And nobody does it.

Neal
21:49
Nobody does it. And once you start to get to that, then, and I also, by the way, ask them, where can I find more people like you? That changed my whole trajectory. Case, I was sitting down with a director of facilities for a national pharmacy, and he goes, you’re our favorite vendor. And I said, you’re our favorite customer. What a coincidence. Where could I find more people like you? Specifically, people who manage hundreds of locations that are relatively small and he gave me the name of a trade show that I didn’t know existed.

Robert
22:23
Very cool.

Neal
22:23
And we started going to that and it was like endless opportunity.

Robert
22:27
Awesome, right?

Neal
22:28
So, like, your good customers really want to help you. They will tell you exactly why, they’ll tell you exactly where to find. And, you know, there’s a whole technique for asking for referrals too. But I think that once you can start to think of it in terms of what the customer actually wants, then you can go to potential customers and you can say, listen, we do this service and people tend to value this about it. Is that, is that something that tracks for you? And you could have two or three, right?

Robert
22:59
Yeah.

Neal
22:59
So when I was selling commercial snow removal to hospitals, right, an example you mentioned, I knew to talk about two or three things at every single hospital. I would talk about, first of all, most important, the ambulance drop off area being clear all the time, right. Because the ambulances are third parties, they’re technically customers. They would come into the emergency room and start complaining and that would just be this chain of command that always rained down crap on the facility guy, right. And they had no problem doing it because they weren’t employed by the hospital. They had no ownership there. So I would talk about that, the importance of it for the, you know, the medical treatment that people need in emergency, but also the complaints that people would get.

Neal
23:47
I would talk about the importance of shift change being this, you know, 1 hour window three times a day that was just slammed with people coming and going, right, where you really need points locked in. And then the last thing I would talk about is the handicap access. You got people coming and going in wheelchairs and walkers who are, you know, barely stable in their mobile. Good weather, let alone good weather, right. And the importance of this one specific area all the time. Right. mostly during business hours. And facility managers would say stuff like, it’s like, you know us, it’s like you’ve heard the meetings we’ve had. Right. I knew because we did hospitals that was the most important, right. Versus when I would go talk to a chain of multiple locations, right.

Neal
24:40
Honestly, the service was like fifth or 6th on their list. They wanted verification of service more than service.

Robert
24:48
Whoa. Like, we want to know you did the job.

Neal
24:50
We want to know the job was done. Yeah. We want to know how much the bill is going to be as quick as possible. Right. Because imagine the difficulty of coordinating 1000 locations and all these services being done every which time, right. Based on the weather and all that spend getting wrapped up and the cash flow that you’re going to request as a facility manager for all of those.

Robert
25:17
Right.

Neal
25:18
Right. And you tell accounting that you need, you know, $2 million, and then you need three and a half million dollars, and the public stock takes a hit because the projections are off. The biggest problem related to this service is not the service.

Robert
25:35
Very cool.

Neal
25:36
But I knew that because I talked to enough of them and they told me about it.

Robert
25:40
Well, I think that kind of goes back to what were saying at the beginning of, like, when you start to work with the same type of facility in a commercial setting or in a residential setting, same type of customer and service, whatever it is that you’re talking about, the repeatability. Now you’re talking to 50 folks that have the same problem. They’re one person with the same problem. They don’t know about the other 50 that have the same problem. And now you become an expert and understand their problems better than they do. And just through your questions and talking points, you can demonstrate that you understand them and build trust without having to say, trust me.

Neal
26:09
Correct. And through all of your continued account management or your problems that you’re solving, you’re just learning that this is a problem, and then you’re implementing that for all your other customers as part of your process improvement. And they’re gears for your life. Right.

Robert
26:25
That big. So talk to me about sales process. You know, what people have, what they don’t have, where do they start? What do you see? It works like, what is sales process look like for you?

Neal
26:35
Yeah. So almost nobody has one in our industry. Right. And all a sales process is, you know, the series of steps that we’re going to follow to convert someone from a prospect, someone we think we could do business with, to a customer. Right. Someone who’s paying us and referring us. And so typically that’s four or five steps. one is taking a really good guess at who’s a potential customer. Right. Not going so far beyond just, oh, they have a lot of landscape to manage. Right, right. To more of that demographic type of stuff. here’s what they care about. Here’s the issues that they’re facing.

Robert
27:18
Business type, facility type, you know, acres type of land. Is it.

Neal
27:22
Sure.

Robert
27:23
Sizes are qualifier, flat, whatever.

Neal
27:25
Yep. definitely where they’re located. Right. So I get people who tell me, oh, Detroit metro area, I don’t know what that means. Your salespeople are confused, and then they’re chasing opportunities and coming back and they’re like, oh, this is actually outside the target. Well, target geography needs to be more concrete than metro area or Chicago loop or whatever, right? so I, I draw a damn map and it’s like, I don’t, if this street is the edge of the map, I don’t want you going to somebody across the street.

Robert
27:55
Right? Yeah. I want the east side of the street, not the west side of the street.

Neal
27:58
Whatever we decide is what it is, but draw a single line. So either when a sale comes back or potential opportunity comes back, we’re super excited, or it doesn’t even enter the room. Right. It’s just efficiency in the process.

Robert
28:11
so there’s like these success factors that people need to establish when trying to identify a quality prospect.

Neal
28:18
Yeah, I have six factors of, qualification and geography is one average sale size is one type of service type of problem. Right. If you go, we have a free course, by the way, on grow the bench for intro to sales. Thatll get you set up with all of this and walk you through what a process looks like. So anyway, identify the right person that you can really service the most profitably, then engage with them. This is that lead gen. It could be cold call, it could be LinkedIn message, it could be postcard, it could be networking, it could be a referral, it could be door knocking. It could be email messaging or white papers or lunch and learns. I don’t care how you engage, there’s so many options. Just engage up to eight times. Right? Like, that’s the process.

Neal
29:06
Up to eight interactions before we give up. And then you go and you talk to them and you have a suspicion that they fit your market, but you don’t know for sure yet, and you have to qualify. You have to make sure that they actually qualify. And there will be times where you take a meeting with someone you think is great and you walk away saying, you know what? We’re actually not fit for each other. Which is cool, which is great.

Robert
29:33
Yeah.

Neal
29:34
Right? And if they’re a fit, then you go through some sort of estimating process. You get them a quote, you give them a presentation, and you close the deal and you get referrals. Right? So those are like the big steps of a sales process. And every single gate, you should be tracking your metrics, and you should have a pass through rate. And if you were to work backwards from a sales goal, you will know how many of those calls you have to make per week. Exactly. Yeah.

Robert
30:05
It’s quite simple, really. Once you start understanding your numbers and your ratios, it becomes a mathematical equation, right?

Neal
30:10
Yeah. And you can get better with some technique over time, but you have to establish a baseline of performance first.

Robert
30:16
Okay. So, I mean, that’s cool. Identify, engage, qualify, estimate, quote, present, close, and refer. I mean, it’s so simple, but, like, if there’s a note to take away from this, it’s that. So if you’re listening, please, you know, identify who you need to go. Six factors of success. Engage with them any way you want. Cold call LinkedIn, door knocker lunch and learn whatever. Qualify them, get an estimate, quote, and present it. Close the deal, and get some referrals.

Neal
30:46
Like, do you know the amount of sales more that a company with a formalized sales process has than those who don’t?

Robert
30:54
It’s got to be staggering.

Neal
30:55
It’s 37% more sales. Like, discipline.

Robert
31:00
It’s like you’re not even doing more. You just discipline.

Neal
31:03
Like, if you just fill in the gaps, even if it’s, like, not good. Right? Like, listen, if you hire me, I’ll come in, I’ll help you do this whole thing. It’s expensive. It’ll be awesome. You don’t have to do that. Like, you just take those things and take your best guess at it, and everybody stick to that plan and work it every day. You’ll probably increase your sales 20% to 30%.

Robert
31:25
Yeah. That’s beautiful. So process. We’ve got, we’ve, we got discipline. Tell me about thinking over for salespeople. LEt me get back to you. LEt me think about it.

Neal
31:36
Yeah. So this is a sales process gone awry. Okay. So we know that people are going to do that. Right? And I want my salespeople to be cutting them off before they do. And so that’s not rude. That’s driving this bus. Right. And all that means is, hey, Rob, here’s what’s going to happen. I’m going to come out, we’re going to talk about this. I’m going to give you a proposal, and then what do you have to do on your end to decide whether we move forward or not? What is your process look like?

Robert
32:18
I’m good. I’m the decision maker. Just me. No big deal.

Neal
32:21
Cool.

Robert
32:21
Got it.

Neal
32:22
So. So how will you make your decision?

Robert
32:26
Well, you know, I’m going to look at your quote and the other quote, see if your stuff lines up, if it’s close. I think you guys are good. You’re probably going to get the business, maybe call reference.

Neal
32:34
Yeah, we’re not going to be close. We’re going to be like 20% more.

Robert
32:38
Well, I mean, why are you so much more.

Neal
32:40
Well, why do you think?

Robert
32:42
Such a good one.

Neal
32:43
Right. Like, we can keep going with this, though.

Robert
32:46
People need to, people need to hear it, though. Right?

Neal
32:48
Let’s talk about it before we get to think it over.

Robert
32:50
Yeah. I love it.

Neal
32:51
Right. And if the answer is, then the other questions are like, do you have the other quotes? If you don’t have them, then you can’t decide. So why am I going to give you mine?

Robert
33:01
I love it.

Neal
33:02
Right. And, and it’s not tenuous. It’s not, it’s not this problem for people if you just talk about it beforehand when what I observe is that salespeople have a lot of power right now in the trades up until the point where they hand over the quote.

Robert
33:22
Right.

Neal
33:22
Right. Like, how many times have you heard, we can’t get anybody to bid. You’re our only bidder. I can’t believe you answered the phone or actually came out here. It’s like, don’t sacrifice that power without getting the information you want.

Robert
33:36
Yeah.

Neal
33:36
So for some companies, here’s what we did. Right. They don’t want to go visit with everybody. They’re calling on people. I’ve got salespeople calling five states away. Right. They’re not going to take the trip out. And so they go. And they also can’t just like, spit out the price to qualify because they have to go do the whole estimate. So they’ll tell the sale, the prospect. Yeah, Rob, we’re going to send you this probably next week. It’ll take us about a week to work on it. We’ll email it over, say, great. Then when it’s done, they call you up and say, hey, I’m just finishing up. I do have one quick question for you. And then on the phone they surprise you with, hey, so I’m thinking it’s going to be 27,000. What are your thoughts? Just to get your reaction.

Robert
34:21
Right.

Neal
34:21
Right. Just to see if there’s anything we need to change to ask that question. How’s it compare? What are your other quotes? At some point we’re going to be like, if nobody else is giving you a quote, then what are you doing? Is it ours?

Robert
34:35
Right.

Neal
34:36
Also, why do you need other quotes? Isn’t this a service you’ve been buying for years and years? How do you not know what this costs? Didn’t you put a budget in for this like eight months ago?

Robert
34:44
Well, we got us tone down our nurture. Nurture voice a little bit.

Neal
34:47
Right? Or tone, I’m not talking to a prospect like that?

Robert
34:50
Yeah, of course not. That’s, I know, but, but.

Neal
34:53
This is my internal voice, right?

Robert
34:55
That’s reality situation. Don’t b’s me. Let’s shoot straight and talk about things the way they’re supposed to be talked about.

Neal
35:01
Yeah. And, and my personality is pretty abrasive like that. So it works for me actually, all the time. Right. People are like, hey, man, I can’t, Neil, I can’t say to a prospect of what you just said. Great, then let’s figure out what you’re going to say. But we’re not going to come our way with no answer. And when my salespeople come to me, I’m probably going to, maybe somebody was interested and they’re going to say this and they’re going to be like, all right, I’m not calling that guy. That’s fine, right? Like, when I’m your sales manager, man, you’re going to feel way more pressure from me than any prospect. Than any prospect.

Robert
35:38
Yeah.

Neal
35:39
What’s the, what was their budget? Oh, I didn’t ask. What do you mean?

Robert
35:42
Well, we had our, so our sales team, when we first started off, it got to the point where they’re like, what is your budget? Like, I don’t know. And they’re like, I can’t go back to the office without the budget because Rob’s going to grind me 100% and no one’s going to do anything to estimate anything unless we get a budget.

Neal
35:57
Yeah.

Robert
35:59
So when in doubt, blame the boss, right?

Neal
36:02
Always, dude.

Robert
36:04
Yeah.

Neal
36:04
Like, guys, you can blame me without even hiring me. You can be like, I volunteer to be your sales coaches, you know, without actually being hired as the scapegoat if it helps you sell more, I’m that committed to your success here.

Robert
36:19
That’s great.

Neal
36:20
Right? So, so I think that’s it. And, yeah, to a prospect, it’s got to be like, well, did you have a budget planned? Like, did you submit a number to accounting?

Robert
36:30
Yeah.

Neal
36:31
Can you show me last year’s quote?

Robert
36:34
Like people, like, even on the residential side, right? Like, people are like, do you have a budget? They’re like, no, I don’t know. I don’t have a budget. I’m like, okay, what’s gonna be a million dollars?

Neal
36:40
Sure.

Robert
36:41
They’re like, oh, that’s way too much. Like, okay, well, you know, it’s gonna be 1200 bucks. Like, that seems really cheap. I’m like, so what number do you have in your mind? Yeah, because you think one’s too expensive and you think one’s too cheap, so you’ve got something. I just need to help you. Help you say it.

Neal
36:57
And, and, you know, if I’m doing a residential design build, right. I might say something like, listen, you want to, you know, ten by 20 patio, no problem. We have done them for as cheap as 20,000 and as much as 200,000. It depends a lot on if you want your material flown in from Italy or you want something from Home Depot. Right. And it depends on how many built in kitchens you want, light fixtures and on.

Robert
37:25
Yeah, the variables go on and on.

Neal
37:26
So help me help you.

Robert
37:28
Yeah. Build the parameters for us to figure out this together.

Neal
37:31
Where do you see yourself within that range? Now, if you, when I was doing commercial snow removal, and I suspect the same is true for, like, basic landscape maintenance, you can probably look at a property and get really close to the number. Right, right. You can go in and be like, it’s got to be around 20,000. And so in that case, I would say, hey, we’ve done properties like this for this type of work that ranging. Sometimes they’re between 15.

Robert
38:00
The I am landscape growth podcast brought to you by intrigue.

Neal
38:03
Where do you keep?

Robert
38:10
And if you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please visit intrigue media.com and click on. Tell you if they go with the lower versus the high.

Neal
38:18
Well, it’s, it forces them to choose above and beyond as opposed to in that range. It doesn’t really tell me anything. Right. So if it’s below, if they say, oh, definitely under 20, then I’m like, I’m not sure we can actually make this happen. I can have that conversation with them right away. Right away. Right. If they’re like, 2025. Oh, great. We’re probably in business here.

Robert
38:38
Yeah, that’s cool, man. So one of the things you kind of mentioned, too, is that like, hey, Neil, I can’t say it like that. Or, sometimes people will come back, they won’t get the answers that they need. And, you know, from our experience, it’s usually something holding them back between the ears. Like, there’s that. There’s the saying, right? Sales isn’t between you and the prospects. It’s between you and your parents.

Neal
38:59
Yeah. So, yeah, very true.

Robert
39:01
What do, what do you say to folks that are like, you know, having a hard time being a little gutsy in the moment, you know, standing their ground? People pleasers can often be sure what seemingly great salespeople but actually can’t close a deal.

Neal
39:16
Correct.

Robert
39:17
Like, what do you see with that stuff?

Neal
39:19
Well, it depends on the issue, because that stuff, like, we. I roll out a sales assessment, and we actually have, like, 78 individual self limiting beliefs that we have to attack that all kind of are encapsulated by that stuff. Right?

Robert
39:32
Yeah, yeah.

Neal
39:33
So, you know, but no, but can.

Robert
39:35
You just speak to that broadly, though? I mean, you said 70. You just said 78 limited beliefs that can hold us back if we hold them. Right?

Neal
39:43
Yes.

Robert
39:43
And I think a lot of people, you know, you give someone a script, you give them a list, and like, okay, go be a great salesperson. But really, that there’s these 78 things that are, like, really detrimental to make.

Neal
39:54
Or may not be there. Yeah, yeah.

Robert
39:55
So what is that. What is that for folks? Just to help them understand what that means.

Neal
39:58
So, you know, that could be, . A million dollars is a lot of money. Right. And if you think that’s true, like, you’re never going to sell a million dollar contract, because every single prospect, by the way, like, just to back up a second, my experience in sales was $20 lawn cuts. Okay. In southeast Michigan to my biggest contract ever was over $5 million piece of paper. Right. At every price point, including those two, the process was exactly the same. Okay. At $5 million, they were like, we got to get our vp involved. At $20, they’re like, my wife needs to sign off on this.

Robert
40:35
Right.

Neal
40:36
Okay. Same process. Both of them said, literally, that’s a lot of money.

Robert
40:41
Right.

Neal
40:43
Okay. Both of them, three meetings.

Robert
40:49
Right.

Neal
40:50
It’s just the scale is the same. It’s. Whether you believe that’s a lot of money or not. And in both cases, I’m like, a lot of money. This is a screaming deal, man.

Robert
41:00
Right.

Neal
41:01
The amount of service that we’re going to provide for what you’re paying is the highest value you can possibly encounter. I need to make sure that they feel that way. Yeah. Right. So that’s. That’s one, like, what’s your. And there’s a threshold. So sometimes we see people who are amazing salespeople. Maybe that life insurance company. Right. They could crush it. Top salesperson ever. But they could only ever get people to spend $40 a month.

Robert
41:25
Right.

Neal
41:26
Because after that, it’s too much money. They’re uncomfortable. Right. Some people think it’s not polite to talk about money.

Robert
41:33
Right. If you run a dinner table or, you know, you ask your dad how much he makes and he smacks upside the head.

Neal
41:38
Yeah.

Robert
41:39
It can be difficult to talk to people about money.

Neal
41:41
Some. Some people think it’s really prudent to take a lot of care in your decision making buying process. And then they let customers do the same thing.

Robert
41:50
Right?

Neal
41:51
Yeah.

Robert
41:52
Isn’t it one to one people sell the way they buy.

Neal
41:54
Correct. Right. So some people think it’s okay to get multiple quotes. Some people think you’re being irresponsible if you don’t. Right, right. I’m telling a customer, why would you possibly need another quote?

Robert
42:05
Yeah, like, we’re going to crush it for you. You just gotta waste your time.

Neal
42:07
Exactly. Total waste of time. You can find someone cheaper if that’s what’s important. But you told me it’s not, otherwise we wouldn’t be talking right now. Yeah, right. So. So on. Some people think that prospects are honest all the time. Right? They just believe what they say.

Robert
42:25
You know, I don’t think they’re maliciously lying. They just lie.

Neal
42:30
They do.

Robert
42:30
Like, they don’t even know they’re lying. Later on, they’re like, yeah, you know, I know. This. This is great. I’ll call you Tuesday. And they’re just lying because they forget about it.

Neal
42:39
But anyway, I can’t figure out why. Why salespeople don’t set up calendar invites for that stuff. Come on, man. Yeah, dude. Hey, we’ll talk on Tuesday at 03:00 okay? I’ll send you a calendar invite and I’ll see you there. Promise. You know, like, so. So, . But how do we fix it? I think that you need a coach who knows what’s happening. Okay. Or you need to. Most of the time when it’s happening, you don’t realize it’s happening. And I have these, too, by the way. Right. I have.

Robert
43:11
Yeah, me too. I’ve just become conscious of them and then decided to tell them to be quiet.

Neal
43:15
Correct. Right. And to learn a tactic or a little script that you go into. here’s. Here’s my. I’ll go from, hey, Neil, you’re super harsh to wow, that’s the nicest, easiest thing you could possibly say. Right? Which is, could sound something like this if it’s around budget. Hey, Rob, I’m hoping you can help me with a little issue that I have. Yeah, of course.

Robert
43:38
What’s up?

Neal
43:39
So my sales coach tells me that I have to ask you for a budget. I’m kind of nervous about it. I don’t like talking about money, but would you help me ask you for a budget number?

Robert
43:49
Yeah, that’s no problem. We can talk about. That’s beautiful, though, right?

Neal
43:53
It’s so beautiful. Like, people love to help people, and they will help you if you can quickly build rapport with them. Right? So, so get an assessment, get a coach, become aware of it, and then you can figure out how to make it work. The other thing I’ll say is, you know, there’s a idea of using strengths based or personality based or behavior based, advantage here. And so for me, like, one of the worst things I could possibly do is try and learn as much as I can about customers. It’s just not my behavior style. I’m way better off the cuff. being in the flow. Like, that’s how I do things. And there’s people who are the polar opposite, and they really should research as much as they can about customers before going in.

Neal
44:41
It will help them be their best. And so that’s a different assessment that we use. I use a gallup strength space selling to help people do that. And, and then my job as a coach is to be like, all right, here’s what we have to accomplish. We have to get a budget number. We have to get a decision time from. Right. And here’s how we might be able to do that for you.

Robert
45:05
Yeah.

Neal
45:06
Right. So here’s what I would say, but that’s going to sound really wrong to you. You’re not going to get there. Let’s figure out what you will say. And then, you know what? Go home, rehearse it. Practice in a mirror. Record yourself. Make it that automatic saying. That sounds so natural that it works for you.

Robert
45:26
Yeah, that’s magic, man. So, I mean, we covered a lot, right? From discipline to consistent, ineffective sales, beating out effective, inconsistent sales efforts, sales process. This whole idea of thinking it over and getting ahead of it, understanding the people, the self limited beliefs. There’s a ton here. Neil, I really appreciate you bringing this up. If someone wants to get a hold of you, though, and maybe engage. What’s the best way to do that?

Neal
45:57
Yeah, I mean, my cell is 805-340-9311 feel free to text me or call me. You can email me at neal. Neal, rowthebench.com dot. You can also check out grow the bench coming up. I’ll be at the pro green expo in Denver, and I’ll be at ilanscape in Chicago. so those would be cool opportunities, if you’re in those markets, to connect in person as well. LinkedIn is always great, also, so awesome, man.

Robert
46:29
And, one last thing to leave the audience with, a resource, you know, author, speaker, somebody that you’ve been following or has had a big impact in terms of, you know, how you think about the way the world works.

Neal
46:43
Yeah. John maxwell is absolutely my favorite, guy ever. I’m a certified John maxwell speaker, trainer, coach. and my personal sales coaches have leveraged a lot of Maxwell’s content as well. So I think it’s all about delivering maximum value through selling. But I’m going to recommend another one, which is far more technical to the point called Giftology is the book. John Roland. Fantastic approach to gifting to gain influence.

Robert
47:18
He’s a canadian, isn’t he?

Neal
47:20
I think he lives in Ohio, but maybe he’s canadian.

Robert
47:26
I’ll check this out quick.

Neal
47:28
giftology is great.

Robert
47:30
I’m just looking for anybody. Anytime that there’s a canadian, right. We got to find somebody.

Neal
47:33
All right. You know, he did a lot of work with, the guy who was really successful at, what’s the junk removal service?

Robert
47:43
Yeah. Brian Scudemore.

Neal
47:45
Yeah. So they’re like friends, and he tells a story about him. So maybe that’s the connection.

Robert
47:51
Maybe that’s it. Maybe that’s it.

Neal
47:52
Yeah.

Robert
47:53
Okay, cool. All right, sweet. Thank you for doing this, as always. Just, you know, bringing the value in a big way. I’m sitting here stuck trying to verify if this guy’s canadian. I don’t know. I can’t tell. Whatever.

Neal
48:13
That’s the story that stuck with me is how he got the attention of Brian Scudermeyer with gifting, which is, I’m not going to spill the beans. You’ll have to get the book to read the story, but it’s remarkable.

Robert
48:25
Cool, man. Thanks again for doing this, everybody, for listening to the episode. Neil Glatt, you’re a gem. Appreciate you, man.

Neal
48:31
Thanks.

Robert
48:37

The I am landscape growth podcast brought to you by intrigue, where passionate marketing meets predictable results for entrepreneurs. Remember to like and subscribe the podcast so you don’t miss the next episode. And if you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please visit intriguemedia.com and click on podcast.