Released: August 17, 2023
In this episode, Rob and Hilary Harrison of Unique Landscape Services explore effective HR strategies in landscaping. They discuss onboarding, training, employee retention, and the benefits of the Landscape Ontario Grow Program. Hilary shares insights on overcoming HR challenges, developing career paths, and building a supportive work environment in the landscaping industry.
“We just need to create the environment that they want to stick in… Money is not the main motivator anymore. It’s not what gets people out of bed.”
– Hillary Harrison
Here’s what we discuss in today’s episode:
- The role and impact of landscape associations
- Engaging with youth and community involvement
- Importance of training and safety in landscaping
- Succession planning and industry sustainability
- The environmental impact of the landscaping industry
Actionable Key Takeaways:
- Implement Wage Grids: Establish clear wage progression grids to help employees see their growth potential within the company.
- Develop Structured Training Programs: Implement comprehensive training for new hires that includes safety, equipment handling, and role-specific skills.
- Enhance Recruitment Strategies: Focus on creating an attractive work environment and utilize programs like Landscape Ontario’s Grow program for training and recruitment.
- Engage with Industry Associations: Leverage the community and resources available through landscape associations for business growth and employee development.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Landscape Ontario Grow Program
- “Crucial Conversations” by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Ron McMillan
If you liked this episode, please rate and review us on your favourite podcast platform, and be sure to hit the subscribe button!
Episode Transcript
Robert
Robert
00:12
Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the I am Landscape Growth podcast. I have the privilege and honor of bringing Hilary Harrison onto the show today from unique landscape services. Hilary, thank you so much for doing this.
Hillary
00:26
Thank you, Rob. Thanks for having me.
Robert
00:29
Bit of like an interesting kind of spin for today’s talk. Hillary is the human resources manager at Unique Landscape Services, also co founder. So I’m really excited to kind of get into that whole, like, team side of things. And I know you’ve got some really interesting perspective and, like, experiences we can share with the group. HR is commonly the number one growth constraint we’re hearing about right now in the landscape industry, so we’ll be able to dig into that. But before we get into it, can you just give us kind of a quick, the Cole’s note summary of kind of where you are at right now and kind of how you got there over the last couple years and what kind of brought you into the green industry and helping run unique landscape services?
Hillary
01:11
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I guess you could say I married into the industry. I had. I went to school at Western for psychology, so I got my undergraduate degree there, and then from there went to Mohawk College for human resources, so got my diploma in HR. That was my ultimate goal, was to work in human resources. Hadn’t thought about running a landscape company at that point, right? Yeah. So I worked at a staffing agency for a little while, doing recruitment, high volume recruitment for general labor positions, and then that was good. But Scott’s business was really taking off, and he needed someone to help with the administrative side, so he asked if I would join, and I thought that was a cool idea, so I did.
Hillary
02:00
You know, he was three to four years in at that point, so didn’t need a full time office admin, so I got to do lots of the infield work as well.
Robert
02:08
So I got.
Hillary
02:09
Yeah, so, doing hardscape maintenance, even going quoting with him, which kind of makes me laugh thinking back that I was tagging along to his quotes. But I gained so much experience, so that got me to where we are today, unique landscape services. We have about 17 full time staff, and I am fortunate enough to be able to focus more on HR as the days go on.
Robert
02:36
Awesome. And just for the sake of the audience, what’s the kind of core focus in terms of the business, in terms of the type of work you folks do for who?
Hillary
02:44
Yeah, so we have a residential, or it’s residential and commercial design, build sector, commercial property maintenance and snow removal. And then kind of spinning off that we do some enhancement work as well.
Robert
02:57
Very cool. All right, sweet. So having this like human resource slant and this formal education and experience, not to mention the fact that you’ve had an opportunity to kind of see the business on the ground floor, working the front lines in the field, you know, doing the work and selling the work. One of the things you kind of mentioned for the podcast is that career paths and developing opportunities for people to see where they can grow into is kind of an important part of maybe like growing and keeping awesome people. Can you just touch on like what you mean by that and kind of how. How it works for you guys?
Hillary
03:34
Yeah, absolutely. So I think kind of starting, I think it all stems from the idea that the trades are still viewed as a lesser option in our society. Landscape isn’t really seen as a career option. It’s often viewed as a temporary summer job that students do. So that’s kind of the thinking that we want to combat by having these career paths. So showing our staff that, you know, you don’t have to just cut grass when you work here, this is your next move. You can develop into this position. So being able to show them what long term looks like is super important to promoting the industry.
Robert
04:14
Yeah. Awesome. And so can you give us an example of what those kind of career paths kind of look like? Just for people that are listening for all the other landscape, entrepreneurs might not have anything in place. What’s something they can do to kind of get started?
Hillary
04:27
Yeah, absolutely. So we’re really focusing on it this year. The first thing we started was implementing wage grids for each position. So it’s a two year wage grid to show that kind of, this is your starting wage and then you can earn up to x amount in your role and then you can see what the next role pays and what your earning potential is. So we started there with kind of the career development side of it. So there’s transparency and there’s no questioning of what raises might look like and what their potential is.
Robert
05:00
Awesome.
Hillary
05:01
Yeah. So that was the start. And then in terms of career development, I think it’s just showing your staff that there’s another opportunity for them to go into. So maybe it’s a new role going from a crew member to a lead hand. And the biggest piece is that as an employer, you’re supporting them in that development. So training, helping enhance their skills, not just kind of like a set it and forget it.
Robert
05:28
Yeah. And good luck and hopefully you’ll improve over time.
Hillary
05:31
Yeah.
Robert
05:32
So one of themes that we’ve heard from landscape leaders, you know, all over Canada and the US, is that the most successful landscape companies are really focused on training and safety. So when it comes to a training program or training approach, let’s say I’m doing something that may or maybe not working, or I haven’t really developed a training program yet. Like, what’s. What does that look like for you? And, like, how do you build it?
Hillary
05:58
That’s a great question. It’s not always an easy start. It can be a bit daunting. But I think it’s really looking at your organization, kind of a bird’s eye view and really identifying the behaviors and what success looks like for your staff, and then working backwards from that and thinking, what do I need to give them for them to achieve success? But that was a big start, was to know what we want out of them and then kind of build backwards.
Robert
06:28
And so then when it comes to, like, a training program, like, is everybody have to kind of go through the same thing, or are the approaches kind of different for each person?
Hillary
06:38
Yeah, I think everyone who enters the organization goes through the same process, goes through very similar onboarding program, where they learn about our core values, about unique as a company, all of our policies. And then the infield training is what might look a little bit different based on different positions, but still follows the same structure. So for us, it’s there’s more of the orientation portion where it’s internal policies, core values, and then there’s the machine and equipment safety orientation, and then there’s the actual in field training, which that’s the largest piece because it doesn’t just happen on day one, it’s week one month three. So it’s ever changing.
Robert
07:27
Very cool. And so who does it with you guys? Like, who’s doing the onboarding, the safety training, and then the infill training is all the same person. Is it different people helping? How does that work?
Hillary
07:37
Yeah, within our organization, I primarily take care of the onboarding, the orientation in terms of the policies, the procedures, that portion of it. And then we do use green us, which is the online training platform for landscapers. We use that for the health and safety training to start off, and then it would be either our maintenance manager or our owner, Scott. He will also help in with the infield training. So that’s, we want to make sure everyone’s feels comfortable and safe before they get out on site. And then from there, it’s a lot of interaction with the crew leaders.
Robert
08:20
Yeah, very cool. So were talking to somebody last week that’s going to that from a podcast perspective, they were talking about this really simple model for training was, I’ll show you. You help me. I’ll help you. You show me.
Hillary
08:33
I like that.
Robert
08:34
Yeah. I thought that was a really cool way to, you know, teach someone a skill out in the field in such a beautifully simple approach. So. Okay. You mentioned that you were in a recruiting firm, and you were doing high volume recruiting for general labor. And everybody we’ve been talking to for the last 1224 months and even before that, but intensified recently, that getting good people, getting staff to come on board is a growth constraint. It’s a bottleneck. There’s nobody out there in air quotes if you can’t see me in the video. So what are you folks doing to address grabbing, getting new people into the organization, or are there any tips that you can kind of share with people about things they. They should be considering when they’re looking at how to recruit?
Hillary
09:18
Yeah, I mean, I like that you put that in your quotes because I’ve kind of gotten rid of that narrative that there’s a labor shortage because there’s people out there. We just need to create the environment that they want to stick in and how. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that’s the biggest part for us. We’ve spent a lot of time developing our core values, our mission, vision. And I think we’ve identified some, I guess, behaviors or consistencies as a result of those core values that people do respond well to. We as a company, you know, it sounds simple, but treat people how we want to be treated. We’re not yelling at people, not ridiculing people. You know, safety is one of our core values, and I always push that as safety and dialogue.
Hillary
10:10
You feel safe to come forward with a complaint, with a mistake or just anything, really.
Robert
10:17
Yeah. Psychological safety, right.
Hillary
10:19
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that’s, I think sometimes, a lot of times that’s missing in the trades and these construction industries. It’s. Yeah, it’s. It’s a mantra that we’re trying to break down, that you have to just be tough and deal with it. Right. So that’s one thing that we are really big on, is just the way we treat our staff. Yeah. And then it’s really just being able to show the benefits of doing landscapes. Money is not the main motivator anymore. It’s not what gets people out of bed. So showing them that there’s benefits, you know, you’re contributing to your communities. You are getting to work outdoors, stay active, really driving home those benefits has been a focus for me when I interview. Definitely. And then. Yeah.
Hillary
11:12
Just really showing the career paths, the apprenticeship opportunities, the kind of different avenues of landscape, those are all key points of mind when I’m interviewing. I like to kind of use it as an education session for sure.
Robert
11:27
Yeah, that’s amazing. And so, like, there’s a couple things quickly. So I’m not sure, but have you seen Ted Lasso?
Hillary
11:34
No, I haven’t.
Robert
11:36
Oh, well, then you’ve got something to look forward to. Anyway, there’s this whole thing about it you got to believe, right. And in this case, and they’re, in their case in the show, they got to believe they can win. But I like what you said at the beginning, but the air quotes thing, like, if you don’t think that there are people out there, then they’re, you know, you’ll, the self fulfilling prophecy will kick in. But if you believe you can find people, it turns out they are there and they do want to maybe work with you. So I think that’s just a really important mindset shift that a lot of people need to kind of get over. Can I put you on the spot about your core values?
Hillary
12:05
Sure.
Robert
12:06
What do you got?
Hillary
12:07
So we do, we have passion, professionalism, honesty, caring and safety.
Robert
12:13
And so is that like kind of in the forefront of your recruiting?
Hillary
12:18
It is more of in a passive way. We are struggling with implementing it into our day to day in terms of actually naming it. We do follow our core values, but it gets a little difficult when you try to say, oh, you’re being passionate today, that kind of stuff. So we struggle with that. But we do still kind of in a management level, make decisions surrounding those core values.
Robert
12:48
Cool. And then when you’re, when you are recruiting, then, like, what kind of methods are you using? Are you going out to, you know, career fairs? Are you talking to younger kids? Are you using, you know, kijiji or. Sorry indeed. Or like, what kind of methods are you using? Mechanisms to try to find folks.
Hillary
13:07
Yeah, honestly, most of our recruiting has been done through indeed or word of mouth referrals from existing staff. But recently I have utilized the landscape Ontario grow program.
Robert
13:19
Ooh, tell me more.
Hillary
13:21
Yeah, so the Grow program, it’s initiative through landscape Ontario funded by the government and their goal is to really just to get more people into the industry. So the piece of it that helps with hiring is they do training for new entrant workers coming into landscape. So it’s, I think it’s eight weeks and it’s free to the candidates that are in it, and they get hands on practical training surrounding landscape.
Robert
13:52
And they do that through landscape Ontario.
Hillary
13:54
Yes. Yeah. So I think they do it out of their Milton office.
Robert
13:58
Yeah, very cool. And then, so how do you as a owner entrepreneur get involved with that? Like how do you participate?
Hillary
14:09
Yeah, so with that portion of the Grow program, the one piece of it is their training and then the second piece is they actually have to find a placement, like a job. And I think it’s like that’s a requirement for them to graduate the grow program. So you can sign up as an employer to be a grow certified employer, and you’re listed on their database so that candidates, when they’re looking for jobs, you’re right in front of them. So that’s a really big help, for sure.
Robert
14:40
Yeah, that’s super cool. And so you mentioned landscape Ontario and being part of the grow program, but you’ve also been participating with the association for the last couple years, maybe five years, whatever it might be. As an owner in the green industry, what has it been like getting involved with your local landscape association? How has it been helpful, meaningful, like what’s it been like over the last, you know, five, six years?
Hillary
15:09
Yeah, it’s pretty cool to utilize landscape Ontario to its potential. I think a lot of people use it for, you know, get discounts on their new trucks and. Which is amazing.
Robert
15:21
Yeah.
Hillary
15:22
But what we found over the past few years is there really is a big sense of community with landscape Ontario. You get to be in the same room as company, tons of companies that are your size, smaller, 2030 years in business longer. So you’re in the same room as everyone. And I’ve really found with this industry, everyone’s fairly open to sharing knowledge and helping each other out. So that’s been a big part, you know, by going to trade shows or their seminars or different conferences that they have going on. Yeah. Just having that support, not feeling so lonely out in the business world.
Robert
16:02
Yeah. And talking to other people that like very specifically understand what you’re going through.
Hillary
16:07
Absolutely.
Robert
16:08
And then, so in terms of programming, you’ve got the grow program, which we’ve talked about, which is amazing. Right. Getting people in, eight week training, then placed. You know, are there any other kind of things that you kind of like, you know, leverage yourself and would recommend to other people that might be listening that maybe they don’t know about it?
Hillary
16:23
Yeah, I mean, touching on the grow program, again, there’s another portion to it which is the employer of choice training. So it’s I participated in it. I think it’s also eight weeks of training for employers just to help them better businesses. And I think me being in that program really sparked wanting to look into more and wanting to know what else was out there. You just, you don’t know what you don’t know. And it. Yeah, it certainly helped kind of make that mindset shift to, you know, there’s changes we need to make and changes we can make. So that portion of it was great, but there’s also the peer to peer network.
Hillary
17:06
There’s different online and in person learning and it’s all very relevant to the stuff that we do every day, whether it’s in field work or a management business owner type seminars.
Robert
17:22
Yeah. Related to helping you grow your business acumen or whatever it might be.
Hillary
17:25
Yeah, absolutely. So those are super helpful.
Robert
17:28
Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, and you’re right, the community of landscapers and landscape Ontario, but like in all the associations we’ve been a part of, you know, what from, you know, California to North Carolina to, you know, Texas, whatever, Ontario, BC, Alberta, there is this weird, like cooperative community. Like everybody’s in it to help each other. It just is, it isn’t. It’s a neat group of folks.
Hillary
17:50
Yeah. It’s not something you often see from, you know, your competition. It’s. I think we all have something to learn from each other and I think we can all gain something from each other as well.
Robert
18:01
Yeah, that’s cool. So when you went through the employer of choice program, what was something that you kind of took away that was like an aha from that. Just to give people a bit of a sneak peek of what they might be able to expect from it.
Hillary
18:09
Yeah. So when I did it, I’m. It was, I think two, I think it was during COVID So the years kind of blurred together.
Robert
18:19
Blur, yeah.
Hillary
18:20
But there was a lot of focus on the new generation that’s coming into the workforce and how we need to be managing them differently and shifting from these kind of outdated practices and geared towards what the, I guess, Gen Z. What they are wanting for wanting and what’s motivating for them.
Robert
18:45
And so what was that like in terms of the different ways to manage versus like the old practices? What was something that could be tangible, maybe someone could take away from that?
Hillary
18:53
Yeah, I think a big thing that I took away is that those entering the workforce now want to know that they’re contributing to something like a bit more of a higher purpose. Just coming to work and making money isn’t the motivator anymore. So for me, it was being able to connect the work that we’re doing to some type of value and to really show them that we’re not just cutting grass, we are maintaining playgrounds for families. So that was a big part for me to able to implement into our business as well.
Robert
19:30
Yeah, that’s cool. I was talking to Jim Landry. He’s the executive director for Landscape New Brunswick. He said something that was really interesting. He was like, landscaping is truly the only real green industry. And so he goes and does workshops for kids in high schools and all over the place. And he’ll ask the group, he’ll be like, is driving an electric car green? And a lot of people put their hands up, and he’s like, well, actually, it’s just less gray. He’s like, he’s riding your bike to school green. Everybody puts her hand. He’s like, it’s actually just less gray. Planting a tree is green. You know, getting into the dirt is green. Right. And shaping the way our communities look. You know, our homes. There is a higher purpose there, and I don’t think landscape industry has done a good job yet.
Robert
20:17
Positioning for everybody, you know, that idea. So I think what you touched on there is a really key point and something that, because a lot of people aren’t doing it, if you or others start, you may be able to stand out from the crowd, which I think is really cool.
Hillary
20:33
Yeah, that’s the goal.
Robert
20:35
Yeah, absolutely, it is. So then you mentioned snow. So in our neck of the woods, snow insurance went through the roof. you know, how are you folks managing that? And, like, what does that all look like?
Hillary
20:50
Yeah, it was, you know, our snow division really did take off about two years ago. Kind of like double tripled our revenue in snow removal. So insurance recognize that. And the kind of the nice weight premium that were paying as a. A quote unquote small business was thrown out the window, and our actual insurance company that we had for six, seven years decided they didn’t want to insure us anymore. There was, you know, too much liability for them, so we had to search for another one. And I think the increase was, like, 700% on our premium, which was wild. Yeah.
Hillary
21:35
I mean, we expected there would be an increase, but I think the biggest thing for us is just trying to hold our customers accountable and not, you know, make sure that they’re paying fair or they’re paying us a fair amount for the work and the liability that we have doing this type of work. Yeah. So we’re not taking on customers that just don’t care about their properties and just want to pay the bare minimum. So that’s been a big focus, especially in these past couple of years, is to narrow down our customer.
Robert
22:11
Okay, sweet. So two things and one I really want to talk about that narrowing. But first, was there any kickback? Like did you have to increase your prices and then go back to your current customers and say it’s like this much more, we’re taking on this much risk? Was there any kickback from that?
Hillary
22:26
No, unfortunately at that point we didn’t have to go back to customers. I think, you know, were kind of already in it so it’s, weren’t really in a position to negotiate so we just kind of dealt with the increase. There any new quotes that went out? Definitely were adjusted, but yeah, we just kind of had to deal with existing clients and increase when we could.
Robert
22:52
Right. And you have been, I’m assuming since then?
Hillary
22:55
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Unfortunately this, you know, out of a twelve month contracts, the removal is most times the most expensive five months out of there, which a lot of people don’t really seem to understand why.
Robert
23:09
Right. And so have you been able to maintain your customer base or have you kind of shed a couple people that weren’t necessarily wanting to do it?
Hillary
23:16
Yeah, I think we kind of definitely geared more towards commercial properties. We don’t take on a lot of like residential homes just because the size of our operation and the equipment that we use, it’s not really a fair price for them to pay.
Robert
23:34
Sure.
Hillary
23:34
Yeah.
Robert
23:34
It’s overkill, right?
Hillary
23:36
Yeah. So we geared more towards commercial. The property management companies that, you know, I think they understand the value and the service we’re providing.
Robert
23:46
So then when you talk about narrowing your customers, like what have you done to try to make that happen?
Hillary
23:52
Yeah. For us in snow removal, it comes down a lot to communication and customers who will actually meet with us and address concerns and make changes on their property to make the snow removal operations go smoother. If clients that, you know, just kind of barely communicate and aren’t willing to invest in their property, we’ve had to politely walk away from those ones and focus more attention in the ones that do want to invest in their properties.
Robert
24:24
Yeah. Very cool. So you’re kind of looking for a mindset of the owner who’s not just willing to sit on their laurels, they actually want to like make the whole thing better for everybody that’s on the property.
Hillary
24:32
Absolutely. Yeah.
Robert
24:34
Very cool. So if you you know, from HR as well. Right. Like we talk about recruiting, onboarding, career path development, that kind of stuff. But then there’s also, you know, growing leaders and then, you know, the inevitable sometimes happens where we have to exit folks. Have you had any experience, you know, around some best practices you can share with some folks? I mean, you have a bit of a unique educational background. Right. Like, there’s not a bunch, there’s not very many landscape owners that have a formalized HR education. So when it comes to exits, is there anything that you can share with folks that maybe give them something to consider so they can like make it as smooth as possible?
Hillary
25:14
Yeah. So you’re just asking kind of like a process for when you do have to make those terminations and changes.
Robert
25:21
Yeah, sure. How you approach it, how do you keep it humanistic? How do you let people, you know, go without, you know, burning bridges?
Hillary
25:28
Yeah, I mean, there’s really no easy way to have that actual conversation. It’s, no matter what we spin it’s, it’s going to be a difficult conversation, but that’s a part of business. I think it’s being as honest with yourself and with the person who you may be letting go as to why it’s happening. I think it always helps to maybe admit some of your faults as a leader, as a business owner. You know, it’s, you don’t always want to sit in front of someone and then just tell them everything they’ve done wrong. And were perfect. We didn’t need to change. Sometimes it’s not fit for the business and sometimes you have a good employee and your leadership is just not at a point where they can manage them. We’ve definitely experienced that throughout the years. So.
Hillary
26:24
Yeah, just being honest and as transparent as possible.
Robert
26:29
Yeah. And I mean, that would probably go a long way too. All the way through like coaching process. I mean, I think one of the biggest things that really messes that part of a business is that there isn’t any upfront communication about it and then it’s a blindsided, like, oh, I had no idea this was coming. And so being as proactive as possible for as long as possible that like, hey, things aren’t working, we’re going to try to make it work. Okay. Things still aren’t working. Maybe we need to talk about other options. Okay, now we’re talking about other options. Okay, now it’s done and maybe that’s over, you know, like a two month period of time instead of just one day, so. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that’s the case sometimes.
Hillary
27:06
Yeah. Consistent feedback is, I think, something a lot of people struggle with where we’re definitely not perfect in that category. So, yeah, it would, I think, help eliminate that blind side that you mentioned.
Robert
27:21
Cool. And are you folks using Glassdoor?
Hillary
27:28
No, I haven’t. No.
Robert
27:30
Okay, well, check it out because you have one. And so this is something that just on the HR side and it’s just for everybody listening, make sure you have a Glassdoor profile that you’re managing because this is an opportunity for staff to let people know what they think about you, whether you have a profile managed by yourself or not. So anyway, Glassdoor is one that we hear a lot of times, people not leveraging it. And so, yeah, for everybody out there, go check out your Glassdoor profile because you probably have one and then you can see what people are saying. Okay. So, you know, bringing core values and employer of choice, landscape Ontario, you know, building these career paths, helping people understand the benefits of being outdoors, knowing that the younger generation actually wants more than just a paycheck.
Robert
28:11
They want to be part of something bigger than them, I think. And then the mindset of like, yes, there are people out there. As long as we believe that to be true, we have a better chance of making it happen. And then there’s this whole idea of getting involved with the association, the benefits that come from that. Specifically in landscape Ontario with the Grow program, which has obviously been a win for you folks, the employer of choice, the peer to peer network, being around other people so you don’t feel like, you know, it’s lonely at the top. It doesn’t have to be like that. There’s a. There’s a lot. There’s a lot in that.
Robert
28:38
So before we wrap up, you know, if there’s one kind of resource, speaker, author, you know, some source of inspiration for you that you’ve been kind of following over the years, like Hillary, what. What would be something that you’d recommend to the audience to check out?
Hillary
28:55
Yeah, right now I’m reading the, oh, crucial conversations book. Sorry, I forgot.
Robert
29:02
Oh, no, that’s cool. Great book.
Hillary
29:03
Yeah. So for myself, definitely in the HR side, it’s super helpful. So I’m just in the progress of reading that book, but I am excited to read it and likely reread it again and just try and nail those principles home.
Robert
29:19
Cool. Crucial conversations. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Hillary. You’re amazing. And thanks, everybody. If you made it this far in the podcast, we’re stoked that you came to the end of it. And, yeah. Stay tuned for the next episode. Thanks again, Hillary, for doing this.
Hillary
29:31
Awesome. Thank you so much.