Green Industry Grit: Jason Lee’s No-BS Approach to Growing a Landscape Business

Robert Murray
Welcome back to another episode of the IM Landscape Growth podcast. I have a very special guest on the show today: another podcast host and landscape entrepreneur, Jason Lee from Skyfrog Landscape, who is co-host of the Green Side Up podcast. Jason, thanks for being on the show, buddy.

10:35
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Rob, thanks for having me on the show. It’s great to be here.

10:37
Robert Murray
Awesome.

10:39
Robert Murray
You’ve been in the industry long time, right? You’ve been running the business for what, 15, almost 16 years at Sky Frog. You want to give the audience a quick little run, give them a rundown of kind of core focus, like how you got into the thing and what your. What your business looks like today.

10:52
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Sure. So, I started out in the horticulture industry pretty early. My family had an acre of cut foliage, so we grew tree ferns for cut foliage for flower arrangements. And so, you know, I was probably.

11:04
Robert Murray
Two or three out weeding.

11:05
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Weeding the fernery with my mom and dad. So, that was my introduction to plants and horticulture. And, you know, at an early age, probably around 8 or 10, my dad got me growing some container plants, and.

11:15
Robert Murray
I’d sell them to retail nurseries.

11:16
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
That was a little bit of an introduction into, you know, the nursery industry as a whole. And coming out of high school, going into college, you know, I know I wanted to do something outdoors, probably in the agriculture industry. And as I was scrolling through the.

11:31
Robert Murray
List of degrees at the University of.

11:32
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Florida, they had landscape and nursery management. And so, at that point in time, I was growing plants. I’d already started to dabble, you know when I could. When I could drive, I obviously started to do some landscape cleanouts and some maintenance work and figured out if I could put 2 yards of cypress.

11:48
Robert Murray
Mulch in the back of my pickup.

11:49
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Truck, somebody pays me a hundred bucks. And that was awesome.

11:52
Robert Murray
Good living right there. Yeah, yeah.

11:54
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So that was big time with man. 10-year-old selling 50 worth of plants to Ms. Joan at Red Bar Nursery and, you know, sling a little bit of mulch. In high school, that was a major win. So I was already doing that. So I just figured, you know, I had a passion for plants and horticulture, and it was just a natural fit. I studied that at the University. So, I went in and got my major in landscape and nursery management from UF. And that’s where I guess I kind of started to expand into more landscaping and landscape design while I was going to school. So as I studied there, I ran, I mean, we call it a company.

12:32
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I mean, it was not a legal company, but my friend Aaron Alvarez and I still teach at UF. We ran a business, a little design-build business, for two years during college. And that was a lot of fun, and that was a, you know, I would say a big building block into what Skyfrog became was those couple years doing design-build stuff with Aaron.

12:55
Robert Murray
Yeah.

12:57
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And then post college, post graduation, I went to work for a company called Austin Outdoor, which was a large landscape firm on the east coast of Florida at that time.

13:06
Robert Murray
While I was there, they were acquired.

13:08
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
By the Yellowstone Group. So, I worked there during that transition.

13:13
Robert Murray
Then, I had my entrepreneurial seizure and decided I wanted to start my own business.

13:19
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Moved back to Gainesville. The economy was kind of in, you know, in the craps. Then, in 2009, there were a lot of changes going on with the acquisition of Austin. It was a great company. I worked for awesome people; they’re still in the industry and, you know, just top-notch guys, and I learned a lot from them. But I just saw an opportunity to go out and work for myself, so I took it and went back to Gainesville without a real plan. So, just knowing that I wanted to work for myself, I had some loose ideas of a plan and moved back. Moved in with a couple of friends of mine. One of them is Jordan, my co-host, who is on the podcast.

13:56
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, at that point in my life, I moved back in with Jordan, another friend of ours, and we just got to work, and that’s really how it began. And We. I went from myself and a pickup truck in a trailer to now we’ve, you know, we’ve grown to. And I will probably do between 2 and a half and 3 million this year in revenue so that our business can grow from that in 15 years, you know, without a plan to. Here we are, you know, and we’re a full-service landscape company in Gainesville. So we do, you know, residential design. Build a lot of residential renovations or enhancements. Then, for maintenance, we do full residential and full commercial maintenance.

14:34
Robert Murray
Epic. So you said you had the entrepreneurial seizure. It seems like you’re referencing material. What’s that about?

14:41
Robert Murray
I am.

14:41
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So that’s. That is the entrepreneurial seizure. I don’t know if it was coined.

14:46
Robert Murray
In Michael or Gerber’s book,

14:48
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
E. Myth Revisited, or it’s definitely coined in the book that he did with Tony Bass that they co-authored together. So in Tony’s book, that entrepreneurial seizure that really hit home when I listened to that book for the first time, that was, you know, it’s just like, how does someone that I’ve never met write a book about my personal journey is what I took away. Took away from that book, you know, so.

15:11
Robert Murray
Oh. So, I mean, we’re gonna get into it in a quick second, like the theme of the podcast. But what inspired you to pick up E. Myth?

15:21
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Man, I have no regrets in life like that. I try to operate life with, like, the idea of no regrets, no record, not even.

15:30
Robert Murray
Exactly.

15:31
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yeah. So I was handed a book when I was working at Austin Outdoor, and whatever I’ll name, drop them. The guy’s an awesome guy. So Bill Delica, who now works with Heartland Landscape, and I think he’s the president or he’s running at this point, but Bill was the executive VP at Austin Outdoor when I was there, and he called me into his office one day, and he handed me the book the E. Myth Revisited. And Bill was such a smart guy, and I learned so much from him, but, man, I just.

16:04
Robert Murray
My attention span is so bad that I can’t sit down.

16:05
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And read a book. And like, I. I don’t know if I should have just ordered the book and gotten to see it back then or whatever. But, you know, he handed me that book, and I tried to get through, like, the first or second chapter, and, man, I never did it.

16:20
Robert Murray
I never got into it.

16:21
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I’d never read the book. And then when Tony’s book came out, I bought it on cd. Like, there was an option there for. For cd. So I bought that.

16:30
Robert Murray
And then probably three or four years.

16:32
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Later, I went back and listened to the E. Myth Revisited and it’s just like, man, I sat on this book for four years and didn’t read it, you know, or consume this knowledge. It’s like I really could have, you know, this could have been really useful, you know, four years earlier in my life. But, you know, it’s just a great, I don’t know, it’s a great book.

16:50
Robert Murray
Great concepts of business.

16:51
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I mean, it’s. Anybody in business, I think, should, you know, read it, listen to it, however you consume books.

16:58
Robert Murray
Yeah, it’s cool. It’s the same thing. I sat on the book; I mean, maybe for four or five months, I could just sit there on our shelf after someone told me I had to read it. But it was definitely the first business book that made me realize I knew nothing about what I was doing, and I needed to start getting myself educated because I just wasn’t thinking about the whole idea around consistency and customer experience at all. So, yeah, cool resource. All right, so this podcast is all about the primary growth constraint holding entrepreneurs back in the green industry. Having yourself going, gone from 1 to 25, 30, folks, whatever it might be. What was, what’s the biggest thing holding entrepreneurs back in the green industry these days?

17:40
Robert Murray
I don’t know.

17:40
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I’ve been thinking about that a lot since that’s the theme of your podcast. The simple thing is the six inches between your ears, like the six inches.

17:48
Robert Murray
Between an entrepreneur’s ears is the biggest.

17:50
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
The thing that holds somebody back from growth, with a lot of other factors involved in that and a lot of things of different sizes. You know, I think, you know, if I can think of where we’re at right now, you know, in growth and different things that affect it, but then it’s like, you know, starting out, there are different things. So I think it’s, you know, as you stairstep your way through business, and especially in the landscape industry, the size of the company you are, there’s going to be different, you know, growth restraints along the way and, you know, it’s kind of how you handle them, and I guess kind of train your mind.

18:25
Robert Murray
I don’t know.

18:26
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yeah.

18:26
Robert Murray
So what was one kind of big stumbling block for you on the way that you were like, how do I do? And then kind of figured it out over some time, and then if you look back, you know, if you give someone some advice about it.

18:37
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So one of the biggest things that hit us, you know, was that we grew.

18:41
Robert Murray
Grew pretty quick for a decade.

18:43
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So you know, from inception to, you know, until 2020 and 2021.

18:48
Robert Murray
And, of course, then we get into.

18:49
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
There’s a whole lot of factors that, you know, were kind of out of a lot of people’s control. So growth pretty quick, you know, through just sheer hard work and determination was a lot of it. But then when that just hard work and determination kind of hit the wall as it came. It became relevant, or maybe just the size. I think it was the size of the business that was becoming any kind of timing with what was going on in the world. But it boils down to, I guess, the fundamentals of having the right people in the right place. So, like, in our business, as we were growing, we were kind of defining, you know, defining roles, trying to really, you know, kind of things that we hadn’t done from the beginning, take a step back in business. Like, let’s get a little more organized.

19:36
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
You know, let’s be organized. Let’s have an organizational chart. Let’s, you know, we’re just at a point where we have to. We had to define what we were doing. And as we did that, you know, we took some steps with a marketing company that we’d hired to build us. I call it my first real website in 2020. Before then, we just had, you know, whatever. Whatever office manager we had would just build us a new website. And so, in 2020, we hired someone.

20:04
Robert Murray
To build us kind of a real website.

20:06
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And through that process, you know, they helped us define our vision and values and how we were organizing our business. And so that was a great process to go through. But it was also eye-opening that it’s just like, okay, we have people put in place in our business that, you know, might not be the right fit, that we’ve moved up maybe too early or just because they’ve been in our business, you know, the most senior people. So you’ve been here the longest. You’re gonna do this now?

20:37
Robert Murray
Yeah.

20:37
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
How about her?

20:38
Robert Murray
So what size did your business get to under sheer determination and, like, will? And then, and when you hit the wall, like, what? What was it?

20:47
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I mean, I think we were. I think we hit in 2020. I mean, it was like the same year. I think we hit like 3 million, like 2.83 million. And. And then that’s kind of when we hit the wall, of course, in whatever politics aside. And all I know is that from 2021 until now, my business has been. Anyway, there’s been a lot of external factors that have hit us, and Joe Biden being our president down here in the, you know, in the south compared to where you’re at in the north, it’s definitely had some effects on business. So. But yeah, that 2021 year was hitting about 3 million, and we’ve done. And we pretty much plateaued. This year, we’ll be a little bit down, but this year, we’ve really taken some time and tried to focus on it.

21:36
Robert Murray
All the processes and all the things that we’re doing.

21:38
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And as we’ve kind of taken a step back a little bit in gross revenue, you know, we’re doing gross revenue with, you know, the same or a little less in gross revenue with, you.

21:49
Robert Murray
Know, 10 to 15 fewer employees than were before.

21:52
Robert Murray
I am really trying to be way more productive.

21:54
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It is.

21:54
Robert Murray
Yeah.

21:55
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, we are improving our structure, you know.

21:58
Robert Murray
And organization, improving our efficiencies and our operations.

22:02
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
You know, when we really stripped it down to what was going on in our business and a lot of this. I know you had Jeffrey Scott on one of your podcasts before, but we started working with Jeffrey too in 2020, and I joined one of his peer groups, and that was a great experience. Jeffrey’s a great facilitator and runs a great peer group. And, you know, the most important thing is a brilliant guy, and the most important thing about his network is the other people in the network who are trying to achieve the same things you are. And, you know, being surrounded by that caliber of business owner and someone that just has the same, I guess, goals that you have really puts you in place.

22:47
Robert Murray
Maybe even people that are just ahead of you.

22:49
Robert Murray
Right.

22:49
Robert Murray
Like they wanted what you wanted five, 10 years ago and did it.

22:52
Robert Murray
Yes.

22:52
Robert Murray
That’s cool.

22:53
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, yeah, and like, the group that I was in, you know, I saw that you know, it was, you know, when I came in, there might have been, you know, four or five other people around the same revenue that I am. But then there are people that have been in the group three or four years and, you know, and they’ve doubled or tripled in size, and they’re growing, and they’re meeting, you know, meeting their profit goals and so. And then also being in a group that you can really talk profits with someone, you know, everyone always talks about top line revenue because that’s, you know, that’s one way to define growth and what you’re doing in business. But then you get down to the bottom, you know, the bottom line. And that’s.

23:27
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It’s good to surround yourself with people with whom you can be open and honest.

23:30
Robert Murray
Yeah, what do they say? Revenue. Revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity, and cash is king.

23:34
Robert Murray
Yeah.

23:35
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yes, absolutely.

23:36
Robert Murray
Yeah.

23:37
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So that was a great experience doing that. I stepped out this year because we’re in the process of rebuilding our shop and trying to reserve. Reserve some cash for some building projects that we have going on. But I wouldn’t trade it for the world. Like, that was a great experience.

23:53
Robert Murray
So I want to get there in a quick second. But when you. When you said you got to, you know, 2.83 million and you’re hitting a wall, what were the symptoms that were showing up in the business day to day?

24:05
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It was. A lot of it was due to the lack of operational efficiency. So one, you know, it kind of all came out at one time, and Covid helped flush some of it out just with some of the stressors that it brought along in some of our personal lives. But, like, I had a really toxic.

24:22
Robert Murray
Second in command, and I didn’t know it.

24:24
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And he’d been with me for a decade, you know, so, like, my, you know, my right. My right hand, my, you know, my.

24:29
Robert Murray
A guy for 10 years turns out to be.

24:31
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Be, you know, one of the culture killers of our business. So, like, finding that out and just, I mean, blind to it, you know, really just blind to it for years. And it’s just like, oh, my God, like, this is like when. And working with Jeffrey helped flush some of that out. And so it’s just like, oh, boy, this is, you know, this is interesting. So having to navigate through that.

24:54
Robert Murray
Interesting. It’s totally.

24:57
Robert Murray
Yeah.

24:58
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, you know, working. Working through that. But then, at that point. And so, you know, and this is a story, right?

25:05
Robert Murray
You’re. You’re allowed to tell a story about this, how messed up it was, but that’s okay if you don’t want to.

25:09
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yeah, but it’s, you know, that. You know, dealing with that on the leadership level and management level. But then also, you know, that same person was kind of covering up some of the inefficiencies that were having, you know, on. On the bottom line. So, like, that was a kick in the pants. And, like, at one point, were losing so much money, it’s like, what in the hell’s going on? So, like, I just had to strip. I stripped everything down, you know, to find out what was going on. It’s just like, man, our. Our actual throughput of maintenance revenue dollars was so low compared to what we were reporting internally.

25:48
Robert Murray
Right.

25:49
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It’s just like, okay, this is like 150 grand. Like, what is. What’s going on?

25:53
Robert Murray
Free work.

25:54
Robert Murray
Yeah.

25:55
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So we were doing a bunch of free work and some of it was pricing. We were just underpriced for what the work that should have been done. And then there was inefficiencies going on in our business. So, you know, those are two things that you can fix. And so we’ve spent the past couple years doing that.

26:13
Robert Murray
What does it look like, though, for somebody who’s thinking about growing up and getting this spot? What does an inefficiency show up? How does that show up? For example, are people leaving sites to go to Home Depot in the middle of a workday, or what is it?

26:25
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
No, that is. And for us, you know, it was. Let’s. I mean, and I guess for different scopes of work and different services, it’d be different. Like for our install department, that would definitely be one, you know, unneeded trip to the store or, you know, and it still happens, like, happens. So, you know, I forgot my wheelbarrow. How did you know we’re doing landscape work today? Like, how did you forget your wheelbarrow? Or our maintenance guys, like, I don’t have a backpack blower. It’s like, how do you not have a backpack blower? That’s one of the most important tools you’re going to need for the day. You know, you should definitely always have your backpack blower. So things like that.

26:58
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
But then, you know, shop efficiency, like shop times, I think one of the largest, you know, leaders in unbelievable hours for landscape maintenance. So, like, and were just, you know, our guys, we’d start at seven.

27:09
Robert Murray
In the morning, and we might not.

27:11
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Leave the shop till, you know, 7:30, 7:45. So it’s just a cluster in the morning every, you know, every morning. So it’s like now, you know, we’re probably, we started 7:00, and the guys are out by 7:10, you know, 7:15.

27:27
Robert Murray
If we’re making a difference.

27:29
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So. Oh yeah. So like, that’s a game changer. That’s a game-changer.

27:33
Robert Murray
So what do you do to change that? Like, if someone’s listening to this and they go, you know, I’m taking half an hour, 45 minutes to get this crew going in the morning. And then you get it down to 10 minutes, what’s the big change that you made?

27:42
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It’s, you know, and the guy that I had previously. Like, we talk about it. It’s like, hey, we have to fix this. He’s like, we can’t.

27:49
Robert Murray
There’s no way.

27:50
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And at the end of the day, you just do it like there’s no other. Like, I don’t have a. It’s like, well, we just. We just started doing it. It’s just like, hey, like, going back.

27:58
Robert Murray
To what you said, right? It’s all about the 6 inches between your ears, and they’re. The. One person says they can, and another person says they can’t. They’re both right.

28:04
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yeah. It’s like. It’s like, no, let’s just do it. Like, oh, like, what are the problems? You know? So, like, with shop time, it was, you know, were unloading and loading our lawnmowers every day. You know, it’s just like, well, hold on. Let’s, you know, we’re running box trucks. Why are we taking the? Like, let’s just bite, you know, eating the elephant. Let’s just take one bite at a time. It’s like, why are we taking the.

28:21
Robert Murray
Mowers out of the box trucks?

28:23
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
That’s why we have the box trucks: so that the equipment can live in there. Like, let’s just start with leaving the equipment on those trucks, you know, and really getting into. For us, it was, you know, assigning.

28:35
Robert Murray
Specific equipment to each truck.

28:36
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
We hadn’t done any of these things, such as the most simple things.

28:40
Robert Murray
Sure.

28:41
Robert Murray
But I think back to your point; you’re saying you had to get organized.

28:44
Robert Murray
Yeah.

28:44
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, I mean, we. And we got back to that basic level, and we still am. And now that we, you know, we got there pretty quick and made some good changes, and then now, you know, we’re still working on it, and I think it’s something that.

28:57
Robert Murray
And even as entrepreneurs, we.

28:59
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
As I grow and kind of grow into a business owner, my mind is growing more towards strategy and strategic thinking, which is an important thing. But then you can’t forget the operations. Like, operations are still important. So unless you know, get to the point where you have a, you know, that really good, you know, second command or a really good operations manager, you know, as a business owner, you.

29:23
Robert Murray
Can’t forget the operations, or else they’ll.

29:25
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Go back to the way they were, you know, immediately. So, yeah, I’ve got two really good production managers that are helping manage our maintenance division now. And so it’s just like anything with building A habit or routine. You know, we’ve got it in place now and we did it during.

29:40
Robert Murray
We really fine-tuned it during this season this year.

29:43
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So in the season, we really fine-tuned it now that we’re kind of out of season and under our every other week service for down here in Florida, you know, now it’s just getting even better.

29:52
Robert Murray
So as long as we can keep.

29:53
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
That traction going into springtime. And that was one of the best things that we did. We had the best. Since I’ve been in business, we had our best kind of spring transition this year, this past year. I still have some struggles. You know, you’re always gonna have struggles with people and clients and all sorts of things. But we had that bed. It was the best transition that we’ve had since I’ve been in business. So it’s like keeping that, you know, and as long as everything goes well this year. So once you get through that transition. For us in the landscape industry, springtime is the best time.

30:23
Robert Murray
You know, if we can get through.

30:24
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
That spring transition, then yeah, it gets hot in Florida. The summer sucks. But, like, as long as that, you’re. As long as you’re in that rhythm, you know. And we had some stuff happen this summer, such as we lost a couple of contracts, and it really gets into pricing. Like, we lost some big contracts, and so then we kind of had to retract a little bit in the middle of the summer. And you know, always finding labor is always hard. So that’s, you know, something. We’re always hiring; we’re always looking for good people. But as we. We did another thing that we did this year for us was that we successfully ran a Force 410 work week, which efficiency-wise again. So, getting down to efficiency, we’ve always run four tens during the summer or winter because we get a little bit slower.

31:10
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, we successfully ran a 410 schedule, probably until August. So, like, and then mid-August, so mid-August, we lost some properties, and then we, you know, it’s not. It gets so hot down here that it’s really hot. It really affects people, their emotions, and their temperament. So led by one guy that, you know, they. He wore his ass on the shoulders, and I think he was a little unhappy about some of the changes we were trying to make with efficiencies. And so he left like, and then he’d been with me for 10 years and. But he moved on, and so a couple of guys followed suit.

31:49
Robert Murray
So, we were down a full crew.

31:51
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Like, I lost a full crew of guys in a week. So then it’s just like, oh my God, what are we going to do? It’s like, guess what? We’re just going to work five days a week. So, like, we’re so close to wintertime.

32:00
Robert Murray
It’s just like we’re just, we’ll just.

32:01
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Go back to working five days a week. It’s not a problem. The guys that are here are going to get more hours. They’re going to be happy, and they’re going to have more hours in the wintertime. Like, we’re not going to hire a whole crew of guys that we have to overwinter, you know. So we ran that, you know, ran that math, and I think our guys would probably work 35 to 40 hours this winter compared to 25 to 30. So, for them, that’s a benefit. But you know, we’ll go back to that 410 schedule this spring because that is the most efficient way for us to operate. And you know, in other markets.

32:33
Robert Murray
What made you decide to do it, and how did it work?

32:36
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So I mean, I just think it’s back to when I was working at Austin Outdoor. I mean, just, I was pigeonholed when I started working there; I was an enhancement crew leader. So I was working in their maintenance department running an enhancement crew, and man, it just made me so mad that every day we would have to be back at the shop at 3:30. It’s like by the time we got our stuff together, we got to the job site, we’d start working at 8:30, we take lunch at 11:30, we get back at 1:30, we work for an hour, then we have to clean our job site up. It’s like, man, I like, I ran the math, and I went back to my manager. It’s like, man, let us work.

33:13
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
If we’re limited to four hours or 40 hours a week, let’s just like.

33:17
Robert Murray
And it’s not like a new thing.

33:18
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It’s not like I wasn’t reinventing it, I was just bringing it to the table where I was working. It’s like, man, I can gain like.

33:24
Robert Murray
Eight more hours of production for me.

33:26
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Crew of actual production if we just work four days a week.

33:29
Robert Murray
Yeah.

33:29
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And that’s, and that’s great. So, like, and I just, you know, and it’s always been, I’ve always.

33:37
Robert Murray
You.

33:38
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Suppose you have to limit your work week to 40 hours, you know, great. If you want to work 50 hours, work five, you know, work five tens. But right, for us specifically, landscape maintenance is contractual work. Giving that buffer day for us in Florida with the rain.

33:55
Robert Murray
Oh, right.

33:56
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It’s huge. This is absolutely huge because if we’re working five days a week and we get a rainy day, then we have to work Saturday.

34:02
Robert Murray
Right?

34:02
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And so then, you know, and then back. I will call it back in the day, probably pre-COVID. You know, we’d always have guys. Yeah, yeah. PC, you know, we’d always have guys who want to work. We work on Saturdays all the time. Everybody would want to come into work, you know, get overtime, whatever. And yeah, Covid, have guys come in. You know, we’d have 10 guys who said they wanted to come work on Saturday, and four of them would show up. So then it’s just like, hold on, we got contractual work we have to get done. We had a rainy day, we’re working Saturday. Now, four out of ten guys show up.

34:35
Robert Murray
Now we gotta.

34:35
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Now I’m begging guys to come work on Sunday.

34:37
Robert Murray
Yeah.

34:37
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So it’s like that was a cycle for, you know, probably like 20, 21, and 2022. So then, and then we just broke it. Like, I don’t know, we just broke the cycle. We set the schedule, and we just have to do it. So that was a major win this year and a major win for the bottom line, for efficiency, just for efficiency and throughput. So, yeah, we’ll continue that plan for eternity.

35:04
Robert Murray
Epic. So then, going back to what you said when you joined the peer group, and it is one of the best decisions you ever made, what was the catalyst for the decision, like, what made you decide to get involved with other people in the industry?

35:14
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I knew, I don’t know, just for, I guess, personal growth. And then, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. So I knew that I needed to learn, you know, not kind of all these eye-opening things, you know, at the same time. You know, reading Tony’s book, you know, I did a couple of his seminars. He does a seminar called Profit Builder, where you go and build a budget in person. He goes to Atlanta. So I’ve done that a couple of times. But it’s like I knew that if I wanted to grow my business long and grow it into. And I still don’t know exactly where I want to go now at this point.

35:48
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
But, you know, if I knew, if I wanted to run as efficiently as it could and be organized to the best, I needed to, you know, kind of surround myself with the best. And I, you know, I. I listened to Jeffrey speak for the first time, probably in 2009 at GIE.

36:04
Robert Murray
Right.

36:05
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And that was the only time that I ever went to the expo. But he spoke there, and so I just followed him ever since. And then I took. Suppose it was pre-COVID, maybe 2019, Jordan and I, from the podcast. So Jordan and I went out to one of his events. He did an event called the Destination Company. And so went to that event, and some of the guys that I met there, like, were. I just went to the event. Just to go, you know, and learn.

36:34
Robert Murray
Scouting it out to see what’s up.

36:35
Robert Murray
Yeah, yeah.

36:36
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, from that specific event. And then, like, the peer group had always been in the back of my mind, but then when I met some guys there who were in the groups and had some conversations with them, it’s just like, oh, man. Like, you know, you talked to four or five people, and all of them had the same feedback. And, you know, you have a conversation with somebody, and you can see that look in their eyes. Every one of them had the same response when I asked them if it was worth joining the peer group. He’s. Then everyone’s response was, I wish I would have done it five years earlier. So, like, that was that. That was a kick. That was my catalyst for going to that event. And hearing that from people, it’s just like, man, I need to.

37:13
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I need to. Or get off the pot. Like, it’s time to just gotta do it. You know, it’s time to go. So. And so I did. So we joined the group and. And also knowing that if we. The second command that I mentioned earlier, like, it was my goal, like, I was starting to see some problems there. It’s just like, all right, part of this process with this peer group is going to be, you know, helping me fix this problem and fix us internally. And now, I didn’t expect to eliminate this person from our business, but one of the first things Jeffrey told me was that, man, this guy shouldn’t be working for you. She’s like, well, damn. That’s the. There goes the brutal, honest truth. You know, it’s like, okay, well, that wasn’t my plan.

37:54
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I was hoping that you were going to kind of, you know, become a marriage counselor for us and help us work. Work all of our stuff. But, yeah, so that’s how I got into the group. And I can’t say enough for everybody in our specific peer group. And then also in Jeffrey’s network. Everyone I’ve met, everyone’s a go-getter, and everyone has similar goals. It’s good to surround yourself with good people.

38:17
Robert Murray
So you’re growing a business, you’re in these peer groups, and you’re doing really well, especially in Gainesville, from your perspective, which is a tough spot to grow a company. But then you’re like, no, let’s start a podcast. So, what’s this setup podcast all about?

38:34
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, you know, Jordan and I, it was definitely, you know, my idea, but after a few cocktails in his backyard, you know, and I was pretty new to the podcast, I guess, industry and world just consuming podcasts and, you know, typical entrepreneurial fashion. You know, I listen to podcasts for a month. It’s like, oh man, I need to have a podcast. It’s just like, no, there’s nothing that we can do. Nah, it’s like, nah, scratch that. There’s nothing that we can do.

38:58
Robert Murray
Do a podcast on it.

38:59
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And then after I started listening to more industry podcasts, specifically, you know, I told Jordan, I said, man, I said, was, I don’t know, were just, were shooting the shit. We had some conversations about whatever business topic, employee, or situation we were dealing with. I told him, I said Man, I said we need to start a podcast. I said we need to start a podcast. I said people can find value in what we’re talking about right now. Like I told him, I said, this is the type of stuff that we talk about in our peer group meetings. And I said, and we learned from each other. So, you know, let’s start a podcast, and we can tell our stories and experiences in our day-to-day and then have some interviews with some great people. So yeah, that’s cool.

39:39
Robert Murray
So you’re talking about your journey essentially day to day, week to week, month to month at Skyfrog. And then what’s Jordan, what’s he all about?

39:47
Robert Murray
So, Jordan operates an independent tree service.

39:50
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It is a family-owned tree business that is located in Tampa, Florida. Jam up tree business.

39:55
Robert Murray
They are great.

39:55
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
It’s a top-notch. Jordan is a phenomenal arborist. His dad has built, you know, a great business over the past 47 years, I think. So they do a great job doing tree work down in Tampa. Should we cover anything from the landscape industry and the tree care industry? I think this is a pretty good dynamic for the podcast. You know, I’m sure some of our landscape listeners might get bored if we’re doing an episode at the tree climbing championship, but you know, maybe they don’t want to hear them, hear that.

40:24
Robert Murray
It’s still pretty cool if you get to see it.

40:26
Robert Murray
Yeah.

40:27
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, you know, I don’t know if they get that excited about that, but it’s like, you know, we’re covering all the bases and then just general entrepreneurship. I mean, you know, we might have somebody. We had, you know, Jordan’s neighbor, you know, he works for Roto-Rooter, you know, but he runs, you know, a mo, I mean, an enormous branch of Roto-Rooter in Tampa, you know, so he’s pretty much running, you know, he’s running a twenty million dollar branch or something. So it’s like, you know, you’re really, your own 20 million. You’re the guy, like you’re the manager. So, like, you’re running your own 20 million dollar business for Roto-Rooter. So, like, you know, stuff like that. So it’s good to get to cover all the bases.

41:04
Robert Murray
And it’s the Green Side Up podcast.

41:07
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Green side up podcast.

41:08
Robert Murray
And you guys drop one every week?

41:10
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Every Thursday.

41:11
Robert Murray
Every Thursday. Very cool. And so if someone wanted to check it out, it’s just you guys talking shop, interviewing people. The Day the Life of an Entrepreneur in the Green Industry. And then, you go, that’s it. And the wins that you have. Yeah, very cool.

41:26
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And the losses. So, some of the losses always add a little extra entertainment. I always learn more from other people’s failures than I do from successes. It’s like, tell me how you mess something up so that when I’m in that same situation, I can think back and hear that, you know, so I take some value from other people’s mistakes too. So we don’t try to sugarcoat anything.

41:46
Robert Murray
That’s our ultimate goal. That’s great. So if you go back to this whole thing about between your ears and getting your head right and growing your, you know, your brain, your leadership, you know, whatever it might be. E Myth with Tony Bass and the landscape contractors, one of them. Getting yourself into a peer group, another one. What other kind of stuff are you doing to grow yourself as a leader and as an entrepreneur?

42:12
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So I guess it goes back to, I mean, that’s a lot of it. Now I was in a, I did a brief stint with a multi level marketing company, sort of pyramid scheme. So scam. Not a scam. It’s a scheme, not a scam. So I joined.

42:28
Robert Murray
Sure.

42:31
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I got involved in that, and you know, I did that for about six months. And we built our little pyramid, and everything was great. You know, a bunch of buddies were having fun. And then hunting season came around, so our pyramid crashed. But, but that’s really. If you’re into MLM, don’t get a bunch of hunters near whitetail deer season. Your shit’s gonna fall apart. But, but through that process, you know, like, of course, you’re getting involved with all those people, and there’s a lot of rahs, and you know, personal development and stuff like that, but it’s real. So, that was really kind of eye-opening to, like, me, like trying to start, like, self-evaluate my own 6 inches between my ears. And it’s just like, you know, like.

43:10
Robert Murray
Listening to Jim Rohn for the first time.

43:12
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Like, I love listening to that guy, you know, and that’s just old school stuff and like follow down the line of, you know, motivational type speakers and books that are endless. But you know, that experience also was kind of a kickoff, and that was probably about the same time that I started working with Tony and reading his book. But that was, some of that stuff was really eye-opening, too. It’s like, all right, I need to evaluate myself as long as I’m self-aware because I mean, you know, everyone’s got issues and problems with growing and managing people. Like, I like digging holes. I like digging holes, planting plants, and cutting pavers. For example, managing people’s lives is a whole new world. Like, I’m not.

43:50
Robert Murray
What does an entrepreneur say? If it wasn’t for customers and my staff, I’d love my business.

43:54
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yeah, yeah, 100%. So, I’m trying to, you know, be aware of some of my faults. That’s one thing I think I’ve done well in business so far, like surrounded myself with good people. Like seeing whether it’s like being self-aware of some of the things that I personally lack in and surrounding myself and people or just seeing the whole, like in the beginning, I hired my first salesperson, who’s still with me today, Tammy. Like she’s been with me 10 years now. And I hired her because I was missing sales appointments. I was still working in the field, digging holes and planting plants. And you know, I’d get a call at 5:30, you know, I’ll cover him. I’m covered in mud right now.

44:31
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
But you know, I can be there, and you know, I’ll be there in 20 minutes, and then it’s just like, no, don’t worry about it. It’s just like, well, like, I’m dropping the ball. Like, I need to. I need to fill this hole in my business. So, you know, little things like that, you know, along the way, I’ve done a pretty good job of surrounding myself with a good team.

44:45
Robert Murray
So.

44:46
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And so, you know, that’s. That’s also a very important part. You know, the people that you surround yourself with in your business and then try to express, I guess, what you want the business to be. So, what? Explaining the vision to your team, you know, maybe a lot of it.

45:04
Robert Murray
People miss, like, this is not an easy thing to do.

45:08
Robert Murray
No.

45:09
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, getting out. Out of my. That was one of my biggest things for years. Like, Tammy, now that we’re, you know, much more open and have meetings and talk about the vision and our plan, you know, like, Tammy, you know, she’s been here 10 years, and, like, we’ll talk about things that were going on five years ago, and she’ll just tell me. She’s like, I had no idea. Like, I had no idea. That’s what, you know, your plan was. That was whatever, you know, because I would have these conversations with one person, you know, like, second command, but we wouldn’t have the conversations with the team.

45:36
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
So, like, he and I were on the same page of where we were going, but then, you know, no one else knew, so we were just pushing forward, you know, and so now that everyone can kind of see where we’re going and what the ultimate end goal is, and not that we haven’t defined end goal. I mean, the end goal is just to do the best for our clients, take care of our people, and everything else falls into place. So where we grow it from that concept, I don’t know where we’ll. Where we’ll go, but as long as everybody’s on the same page, it’ll be a better path.

46:09
Robert Murray
Yeah, that’s cool. And I find a lot of times getting bigger for the sake of bigger doesn’t always work. But getting better usually makes people bigger.

46:15
Robert Murray
Yep. Absolutely. Cool.

46:17
Robert Murray
Focus and the results follow. So then to wrap up, I know you mentioned Tony Bass and the E. Myth landscape contractor. Any other resource speaker you mentioned, Jim Rohn, sticks out as somebody worth checking out, man.

46:32
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Tony and Jeffrey, I mean, they’ve been a big influence on my business.

46:37
Robert Murray
And they know that. They know the industry, too.

46:39
Robert Murray
Right?

46:39
Robert Murray
Like, and they know.

46:40
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
And they know the industry very well. And there’s a lot of people, man, going to events. Obviously, we met you guys at an event in Florida, you know, going to trade show events, meeting people, and sitting in on the educational courses. I mean, you’re going to come across people and learn things.

46:56
Robert Murray
I think that’s just for the record. So, yeah, putting yourself out there and being in the industry is a big deal. And having a cooler with beers and a wheelbarrow full of mimosas, you know, just really helps you find your people.

47:08
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Yeah, absolutely. You know, hey, man, you want a beer? Absolutely.

47:12
Robert Murray
Okay.

47:12
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
We’re going to be friends, you know.

47:15
Robert Murray
Yeah.

47:15
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I love your wheelbarrow.

47:17
Robert Murray
Yeah.

47:18
Robert Murray
So last question. When it comes to espresso martinis, are you? Are they sipping drinks? Are they shooting drinks?

47:24
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
I’ve learned that they are shooting drinks.

47:26
Robert Murray
That is the right answer, my friend. That is the right.

47:29
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
We should. We shoot espresso martinis. Just watch out for the coffee. Just watch out for the coffee beans.

47:35
Robert Murray
Yeah, they sneak them in there, especially under the frog. Anyway, you’re the best. Thanks for doing this, buddy.

47:40
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Awesome.

47:41
Robert Murray
If someone wants to reach out to you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

47:47
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Probably through the. I’ve turned over some of our social stuff on Scott Frog landscape to our marketing team. Now probably directly through the podcast. You can reach me on Instagram at Greenside up podcast. You can Also email us greenside up podcastmail.com or if you stumble upon Skyfrog Landscape on Instagram, shoot me a message there. I’m normally checking that, you know, once a week, something like that.

48:14
Robert Murray
And there’s also a really nice.

48:19
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
We also have a brand new website. Oh, really? Yeah, we do. We do. Www.greensideuppodcast.com.

48:27
Robert Murray
I, I’ve. I’ve stumbled upon this site. It looks. It looks pretty good.

48:32
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
You guys did a great job for us.

48:36
Robert Murray
You’re the best. Thank you for doing this again, man. I appreciate it.

48:41
Jason Lee, SkyFrog Landscape
Awesome, Rob. Thank you.