Why You’re Stuck: Jordan Daneker on Overcoming Barriers in the Green Industry

00:33
Rob Murray
Welcome back to another episode of the IM Landscape Growth podcast. An awesome guest today, Jordan Daneker. Thank you, Jordan, for doing this. Pumped to have you on the show.

00:42
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, man, thanks for having me, Robert. I really appreciate it. I’m looking forward to it.

00:46
Rob Murray
Sweet. So Jordan, just before we even got on the started press record, said he’s going. He started at the bottom, and now he’s running an awesome design-build company up in North Carolina by the Outer Banks. And I’m like wicked pumped to come visit because I think you’re the site visit at the next Sick dump conference in 2025. Yep, yep. So I am selfishly oriented to seeing what the beach looks like in front of your place and maybe even getting in the water with a surfboard. But for the ticket today and understanding, what it takes to grow a landscape business, can you give people like a 30 second overview of how you started from the bottom and what you’re focused on now in terms of the business that evolve?

01:32
Jordan Daneker
Yep, just a really quick overview. I actually started out in the maintenance industry, so I worked at a maintenance firm for seven years and got more and more into design-build. In short, I was able to sell that company. We had moved up to about 32 people, about $3.4 million in revenue, and sold that company. They’re still operating today. And then I have a design-build firm that focuses on outdoor living, and there’s about 25 of us here now, and we also do quite a fair amount of pools. So you know.

02:07
Rob Murray
Well, that’s something specifically I’m going to bring up later on about your strategy for market. So we’ll get there. I got a note here. And before we get it. So Design Build 25 folks, focus on outdoor living. And I mean if you’re watching a clip of this on LinkedIn or something like that, you can see the background is gorgeous. And that seems to be the type of properties that you as and your team focus on, right?

02:32
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, absolutely. This is probably a great piece of showing what we’re capable of in house. We’re really proud that we do 95 of things in house. Right. Try to control the process. So, yeah, definitely this. Put this as a pool pavilion, pavers, fire pit, kitchen, you name it.

02:51
Rob Murray
Yeah, it’s amazing.

02:52
Jordan Daneker
Thank you. Yeah, appreciate that. Got some really cool stuff on. On the gram as well.

02:57
Rob Murray
If that’s your thing, what’s the handle?

03:00
Jordan Daneker
Evolve_design_build.

03:03
Rob Murray
So, just check it out on Instagram. Okay. It’s. We’re going into American Thanksgiving tomorrow. We’re on the date of recording. It is currently November 27th. What does your Thanksgiving tradition look like?

03:18
Jordan Daneker
It’s funny, man. It’s crazy. Everybody. Every time during the holidays, everybody’s asking me, like, hey, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

03:25
Rob Murray
Yeah.

03:25
Jordan Daneker
I have such a small family. It’s really strange. And, like, we’re super low-key. We probably do as low-key as anybody. We don’t have a crazy tradition. I do have five brothers, and we all try to get together. As simple as it sounds, we take a group photo of just the brothers for our tradition. Whatever.

03:48
Rob Murray
That’s great.

03:49
Jordan Daneker
I know I know it’s silly and like, you know, everybody has these big Thanksgiving, but it’s like every year we like to look back and poke fun at each other of who got fatter or, you know, who’s thinner or whatever because we’re brothers. Right. We’re allowed to do that. So that’s kind of our tradition.

04:04
Rob Murray
I love it. I mean, it doesn’t have to be crazy for it to be worthwhile. And do your brothers all live close, or is everybody kind of a bit farther away coming back together for Thanksgiving?

04:16
Jordan Daneker
Yep. Super blessed. Actually. Two of them work with me and have been here, oh, sick. Five years. Yep. Then the other one is a Marine and the other one works for the Port of Norfolk. So the one’s about two hours away, and the other one’s about an hour and 15 minutes away. So we’re still, you know, we’re far.

04:38
Rob Murray
Enough away not to kill each other. Close enough to be able to hang out.

04:40
Jordan Daneker
Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, of course, there are the sisters-in-law, and for whatever reason, we can’t get along with each other’s sisters-in-law, but we don’t tell them that. So.

04:50
Rob Murray
All right, I won’t send them this. Okay. So, we talked a little bit about the core theme of the podcast before we get recording. You know what? What is the primary growth constraint holding entrepreneurs back in the green industry? And I think, you know, with where you came from, building A maintenance business, selling it, starting design, build business to getting it from 0 to 25, you know, on repeat, you probably have some formal ideas on, you know, what can hold people back and get in their way. So, what do you see as the primary growth constraint these days?

05:23
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, I mean, definitely. I have a ton of opinions. I always tell people that, right?

05:26
Rob Murray
Whether.

05:27
Jordan Daneker
Whether they’re worth anything, who knows? The number one restraint from me or constraints, excuse me, is the entrepreneur himself. Honestly, most. In most cases. And that’s been my experience, you know, having to humble myself. And also. The devaluation. The devaluation of yourself. Right. And. And I’ll kind of, you know, elaborate on that. I don’t want to, you know, get too wild out of the gate. But I’d say just to sum the question up, for me, the number one growth constraint is the entrepreneur himself, right? And a lot of people are like, what do you mean? I’m an entrepreneur. I want to grow. Like, I want to show this. We can’t seem to delegate enough initially. When we’re entrepreneurs, we feel this desire to do everything by ourselves. It can’t be done, right?

06:17
Jordan Daneker
And really, the core strength of a good entrepreneur, in my opinion, is the ability to coach and delegate. Once you figure that out, you’re typically able to grow.

06:28
Rob Murray
Okay, so first of all, we get all sorts of answers to this question, right? You know, last year, we heard it time and time again. Staff, there’s no staff. We can’t hire people. You know, it’s turned a little bit. Some people are like, you know, leads, and the market is softer. Some people say, you know, not being able to train or keep good people. But I find the most successful people answer in a very similar way. And it’s really between the ears and getting their head right. And then once they figured that out and going back to what you said, you know, letting go or Del Giddy and coaching, things really started to take off. But a common theme among a lot of folks who have answered similarly is that they waited too long to do it. You know, they wish they had done it earlier.

07:18
Rob Murray
Sometimes, it was like a life event that made them think differently. It took them out of the business sometimes, like a health event or something like that. Sometimes, it was coaching or mentorship. Like, what was it for you then? Like, did that flip the switch to help you say, I gotta. I gotta get out of the way here.

07:33
Jordan Daneker
That’s wild that there’s a key indicator because, for me, it was the exact same thing. And, like, I feel like My key indicator is. It was almost rude. Like, I was offended. And. And I’ll tell you what happened. I’ll never forget the day. Never forget the person’s name. The client’s name was Shirley Mazingo. Didn’t even like her, honestly. Just was cutting her grass, and she has probably been cutting her grass three years, and she always stood at her window, and she’d be that lady to call, yeah, oh, yeah, dude. And she. You’d leave. You left the gate open. You missed the spot. I’m like, we’re out there, you know, it’s 97 degrees in August. Everybody’s tired, trying to do good.

08:14
Rob Murray
It looks like they jumped in the swimming pool. You’re sweating so much.

08:16
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, exactly. So she said, I’m getting ready to leave. We’re packing up the trailer. Probably been in business, like, for five years. She has been cutting her grass for three years. You know, I’m trying to juggle everything. I’m tired. I look exhausted thinking about everything. She says, Jordan, you got a minute? I’m like, this lady doesn’t even talk to me. What? I was like, yes, ma’am. You know, of course. She’s like, come inside. I was like, oh, Jesus Christ. You know, my God. You know, I’m like. I’m like, oh, man. Sits me down on the. In the. You know, on the couch. And she says, you know, I’m probably gonna offend you, what I’m gonna say, but I feel like it needs to be said. I’m like, oh, yeah. Just again, you know, Here she comes. Yep. She goes, you know, I’ve watched you for three years.

08:57
Jordan Daneker
She said I watch you on social media. I see your trucks all over the community. And she says you don’t think very highly of yourself. Swear to God, I’m like, this. I mean, I want to be like this. Be. You know, I’m like, all right, this is that truth, man, not stretch. I said, what do you mean? I don’t think very highly. She goes, well, she says, you’re a smart guy. I’ve talked to you a few times out here. You’re a hard worker. She says you don’t realize your true potential. I can tell. And I said, you talking about. I was like, yeah, I’m growing a business. I’m building it. She goes, well, you must only be worth $14 an hour. And I said, what? She said, yeah, every day or every week, you show up, and you get on this mower.

09:35
Jordan Daneker
She said that you value yourself at exactly what job you’re willing to do with that skill set. And she said, for you, I can’t figure it out because you have so much potential, but yet every day you value yourself at 14 an hour. And that’s not a dis. You know, me saying this, and, you know, even my staff, if they listen to this podcast, I’m not saying because you cut grass, that there are people that. That. That is what they want to be doing. That’s their job.

10:04
Rob Murray
And it can be enjoyable, too.

10:06
Jordan Daneker
Exactly. It’s enjoyable. And. And I left there, and she’s like, She’s like, I would challenge you to have more value in yourself. That was it. That’s all she said to me. She’s like, have a good day? Pretty much. I rode around that whole day, and I’m like, I was pissed, dude. Sure.

10:21
Rob Murray
She just messed up your head.

10:23
Jordan Daneker
Yeah. I’m like, I’m laying in bed at night. I’m like, this lady, she makes so much sense. Every single day, I get on that mower. It’s not about the mower. Right. It’s about the tasks that I take on. Right. How am I ever going to get past those tasks when I only value myself at that cap? Right. And is that a bad thing? No. It depends on what we want as entrepreneurs. Do we want to be an owner or operator? Do we want to grow the business? Everybody’s goals in life are different. Right. And so the point of the story is, the pivotal point for me was realizing that in order for me to get to the next stage, I had to be willing to relinquish that duty and put somebody up there to where they thought that value for them was the best.

11:08
Jordan Daneker
Does that make sense?

11:09
Rob Murray
Yeah. That’s great.

11:10
Jordan Daneker
And so that was my pivotal point. It really was. It. Honestly, there’s been a. There’s. There’s one other occasion when I went to Pennsylvania to meet with Tussie Landscape Group. That also molded me, but that was the point where I said, I’ve got to start figuring out how to step away from certain things because I’m halting my own growth. We have. We have this thing as entrepreneurs. We think everybody can’t do as well as we do. And. And I don’t know what you’re talking about. Yeah, here’s the thing, dude. You want to feel really good about something; you want to feel good about making a difference in your life. Watch somebody else succeed. I mean, it’s as simple as that. Like, my goal every day now. And, like, I’m not 100 company.

11:55
Rob Murray
Right.

11:55
Jordan Daneker
I’m a 25-person company. Right. But we do customization there. There are some limitations to that, such as you have to have a certain skill set. I’m a coach, man. You look, you look at. When I say I’m a coach, I don’t know if I need to be coaching other people, but I’m coaching my people, right? I’m showing them how our brand is, how we’re going to do things, how we’re going to handle it, and we’re honing those skills. And when those people win, I feel like I’m winning. So it just really depends on what you want out of this life. And you know, where you’re willing to set the bar.

12:27
Jordan Daneker
If you’re willing to say that nobody can cut in a certain cut a, on a paver job because everybody else can lay the pavers when we get to cutting, I’m going to do all the cutting, for example. Then that’s where you’ve decided to stop. Are you going to train the next person? You have to be willing to have enough patience to train that next person to handle the cuts so that you can move on to doing the next step, you know, whatever it is. So, you know, we have all.

12:53
Rob Murray
Well, I think it’s awesome. And how many people have you met or have I met where something gets difficult, and they go, eff it, I’ll just, I’ll go back a little bit smaller, come back a step, I’ll take care of this stuff, and it’ll be fine. Instead of letting somebody mess up a bunch of cuts so they can get good at it. Because there’s no way somebody was a perfect cutter their first time. And so it’s like, how much are you willing to let someone go down this path and watch them buck shit up and be like, this is worth it? Because at the end of the day, I’m getting myself into a new elevated position inside an organizational setting.

13:28
Jordan Daneker
Yeah. And it’s funny you say that, like, as entrepreneurs, we’re sometimes running our budget so tight that we can’t afford to even do that because there’s so much money on the line. Like, you don’t; you have to go back before you can go forward. And what I mean by that is when you’re training somebody, you can’t expect the same production out of that person that you’re going to have. And you’re going to be sweating it. You’re going to be like, oh my God, we got it. We have to get this done. We have to get this done. You Have to learn how to pump the brakes. Woosa and say it’s okay. Right? Like it’s okay. This individual needs this. Do you know what I mean?

14:02
Rob Murray
Well, I think you’re alluding to this idea, and maybe you can just validate it based on what I’m hearing. But a lot of people are looking at the quarter, like the month, the quarter, the year. The year is almost like the long-term vision as opposed to the three to five years. Where are we trying to take this thing to? And I find when people are a bit more shortsighted, like, you know, focused on the month and the quarter; it becomes really difficult to let go of anything because you’re not going to necessarily be as profitable as you plan because someone else is doing it and it’s not necessarily as good.

14:33
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, I mean, 100%. And you know, I think people are also getting so focused on money now, right? This saying that I’ve told my brothers, you know, the interesting thing about working with your brothers is they.

14:46
Rob Murray
Constantly, that’s another episode, I think. But yeah, keep going.

14:49
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, they just want to raise. Right? So, so always like, h, I need to get a raise, I need to get raised. I’m like, and I have this thing I tell my brothers all the time: if you don’t worry about the money and you worry about doing the job, the money will take care of itself. Okay? And, and so I tell the pe, it’s the same way. You got to think with that one year, five years, listen, we all got bills to pay. I’m not discounting that. That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying focus more on the now in the process, and the process will take care of you in three to five years. People entrepreneurs typically are not; they’re so all over; they’ve got all these ideas, and they can’t clean up their processes.

15:30
Jordan Daneker
So their processes will never take care of them. You can be a great entrepreneur, but if you’re not willing to pump the brakes and create those processes, you’re never going to see, in my opinion, you’re not going to see long term success. You may see short term success, you may see that, but you’ve got to be willing to clean up your act to get to the next level. If that makes sense.

15:50
Rob Murray
Yeah, I mean, for sure, it does. And let’s get into some specifics, and well, maybe we’ll dig into the process piece and then come back to letting go and delegating and becoming a coach inside the company. So, first of all, let’s say whatever, I’m a million, 2 million, 3. I got a decent crew. We’re doing well. We don’t have a lot of processes in place. Things are a little chaotic, but overall, we’re doing okay. Now we want to get to two and a half, three million plus. Like, what? What did you do? What did you hit? Like, what symptoms were you experiencing when you’re like, we got to get this process stuff figured out. We got to slow down a little bit and get our straight.

16:28
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, that’s. That’s funny. And another. When you said that, another thing came to my mind. I had a. You know, the great thing about our industry is that we typically end up working for successful people. We do work for a lot of different people, but in a lot of cases, we work for smart people. And I had this other client. His name was David Hart. And it’s funny. Years ago, I really had trouble getting from three to four to where we are today. We do. We’re going to be just shy of $7 million in gross revenue this year. And. And there. Those. Those look totally different, by the way. Two to three. I had this conversation the other day, and really, like, three to five is. It is a funny spot, but after five, I swear, things get easier. You have more people.

17:14
Jordan Daneker
What it was for me was the administrative position. I didn’t realize you have this thing as an entrepreneur, especially in this trade, that everything’s revenue generation, right? Like, you have to generate revenue. Right? Well, we. We come from working with our hands, so we have to say that the positions that didn’t make sense to me were administrative positions. I’m like, she doesn’t make us any money. Like, we got to be out there.

17:37
Rob Murray
She’s not getting customers or keeping customers.

17:39
Jordan Daneker
Right, Right. Like, we’re. We’re making a little runaround. Like, how can I? How can I do this? Like, it doesn’t make any sense. And so I’ll never forget when I hired a procurement manager, right, who just orders materials and takes on stuff because I was, like, so behind. I’m like, things are missing on the job where our man hours are. Like, I’ve done it all. Like, we’ve been messy as messy gets. Like, dude, like, guys sitting on the job, four guys. Where’s the coping app for the pool? Where’s this? Where’s that? And I was at a client’s house, David Hart. And he’s like, David comes out. He’s like, man, you need a procurement manager. I was like, what the hell is that? I mean, literally, I’m like, yeah, I.

18:14
Rob Murray
Don’t even know what you’re talking about.

18:15
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, you need a guy who procures materials. He, he measures, you know, supplies. He’s making sure everything’s here. I’m like, David, you know how much money that’s going to cost me? He’s like, it’s not going to cost you any money. I’m like, what do you mean it’s not going to cost me money? He goes, it’s going to save you money. I was like, how’s it going to save me money? Well, you’re going to be efficient. He’s like, it’s going to save you money. He’s not there to make you money. He’s not gonna make you money. I’m like, yeah, he’s not gonna make me money. I’m paying. He’s not made me. He’s like, dude, he’s there to save you money. And I’m like, we gotta stop thinking how can we get to the next level? It’s not all labor driven, right? It’s it.

18:53
Jordan Daneker
We think that because that’s where we came from in this industry, everything we’ve seen to generate revenue has been labor-based. We’ve got to start thinking in a different way. So, I guess the way to answer that question is administrative. Your administrative team should be as strong as you feel your field team is. And, to me, that’s when you can start to put forth the growth. And I’m going to tell you why. If you can’t control the customer experience by getting back to them in a timely manner, from getting out proposals in a timely manner to making sure at the end of the job things are cleaned up, and everybody’s satisfied. You can be the best craftsman in the world, the best mower, the best grass cutter. And there’s no closure for them. There’s no, the process isn’t clean.

19:41
Jordan Daneker
So, being able to clean up the process and have administrative backing is when you really start to get into that next stage of growth. And that’s hard to realize as a guy that came from the field. Does that make sense?

19:54
Rob Murray
Yeah, well, and one of the things I want to qualify with that idea is, so this is a kind of general observation of firms in Canada and the USA, but essentially, an average productive firm tends to do about a hundred thousand dollars in revenue per person. You know, some 120, 125, and 500,000 people are highly productive. Top 1% of the country. You guys did 7, 8 million on 25 people. You know, you’re looking at 220, 240, a person who is highly productive. You can only be that kind of productive when you’re efficient. And the thing I just heard from you is that you can only be efficient if. If you got your processes and your admin in shape.

20:45
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, no, you. You hit the nail on the head, and it. And it’s. It’s really tough. It was tough for me, man. Robert. Like, I literally. I struggled with it. I couldn’t understand it. And like, now today, nothing’s ever easy. I’m not going to act like it’s easy, but we did an exercise at the SYNKD UP event where the companies with more people had more resources. And I will tell you that we have the resources to handle problems as they arise. Things get messed up. Absolutely. Like, we dropped the wrong color pool the other day at the. At the right house. Wrong color pool. We had the pool picked back up and brought back to our shop, unloaded, and a new pool set in place. We started to backfill within three hours because we had the resources and the manpower to handle it.

21:31
Jordan Daneker
And I think that as entrepreneurs, especially in the green industry and hardscape industry, we get so consumed by, you know, not having processes and not taking the time to grow and just doing the work that we really handicap ourselves.

21:46
Rob Murray
Yeah, I think that’s a great lesson for everybody. And I also feel like you might have a book in the making about what you learned from your landscape clients.

21:55
Jordan Daneker
Yeah.

21:56
Rob Murray
Yeah. Each chapter is one of your customers giving you leadership lessons on how to grow a business. Is there another customer that pops into your mind who helped you with something out of curiosity? Like, is there somebody we’re missing that we should bring in?

22:13
Jordan Daneker
Man, they always come to you. Like, if you’re asked, like, put on the spot and think about it. Probably. I’ve had great clients. Like, and, you know, here’s what I will say. Look, if you’re like, the job behind me, okay, it’s a $400,000 job. That guy’s not a dummy. Like, he’s writing checks for it. Right. Like, we’ve done jobs from, you know, simple, obviously small jobs to the largest job to date is close to $1,000,000. 9 93, I think it was. Those guys didn’t get there by making, you know, dumb decisions. Like, you should talk to your clients. They, they.

22:48
Rob Murray
I love that, though, for folks like it, what a beautifully simple idea.

22:52
Jordan Daneker
Yeah. Like, listen, let me tell you something if you ask any successful entrepreneur. Any true entrepreneur, okay, he’s going to want to share with you. He is. He’s proud. He is proud. And not only that, he’s probably been there. And so I don’t care if he’s in the IT sector. I don’t care if he makes food.

23:14
Rob Murray
Production, whatever, door knobs, right?

23:16
Jordan Daneker
If he makes doorknobs, you’re like, I’m never. That guy had some similar problems. You’re going to take one nugget from him, and you are literally getting his time for free. Where would there be a lot of people who would love this guy behind me? Did you see this photo? He owns this company called Smith and Keane, okay? He’s got 300 employees. He started from the ground up. He ain’t no slouch. And he would love it. He loved to stand out there and tell me about how he did this. He’s reminiscing. He’s talking about. I’ll tell you another cl. I’m going to tell you, guy, Davis Malat. And I’m probably.

23:46
Rob Murray
There it is. Chapter three, right?

23:49
Jordan Daneker
So. So here is a complete stud. I mean, a stud, okay? Davis Malat is in the equipment business, okay? He was working for John Deere, okay? And before the Internet, all right, I’m working for this guy. We’re doing a massive patio. Before the Internet, he. I said, Davis, how’d you do all this? I thought you said you used to work for John Deere. Now he owns this massive company that ships used equipment all over the continent, okay? Blew my mind. He said, Jordan, there was a time when you would come to trade in your John Deere and buy a new one, and it stayed on the lot. And I said, and then we try to sell it locally. We’d have all these John Deere sold locally. And we couldn’t get them sold because, guess what? Our radius of customers was 200 miles.

24:33
Jordan Daneker
He said you gotta understand this before the Internet. He said, one night, I was sitting there, and a man dropped off a fax machine. And he said. He said, hey, this is a fax machine. You can dial out. We had it for six months. Six months. I kept thinking about this fax machine because this thing’s the biggest piece of crap in the world. What am I going to do with it? He said, I was sitting there at my desk, and I had 42 pieces of traded-in equipment out there. And my manager told me, and he says, I’m a sales guy. He said we got to figure out a way to get rid of this Davis, so I drew up on a piece of paper and a flyer all the equipment that we had. I wrote it on a piece of paper.

25:06
Jordan Daneker
I went to the phone book, and I found all the John Deere companies in the US. I faxed that paper to all the John Deere companies in the US, and then I left. Didn’t think nothing of it.

25:17
Rob Murray
Yeah.

25:18
Jordan Daneker
What do you mean you think of it? I just faxed out a list. He said, I got back the next morning, our phone was ringing off the hook. We sold 32 pieces out of the 40 pieces and shipped them across the country. And he said we did it because somebody in Florida who didn’t have access to the piece of equipment I had in my yard was looking at a John Deere 206 or whatever, but he couldn’t find one within a 200-mile radius because he didn’t have the ability to look at it. Then, Davis built a multi-million-dollar company. Okay. From a fax machine before the Internet, sending out like genius. Right. So these guys that you’re working for, they’re studs or gals. Ask them how they did it, and ask them how to get processed. Odds are they have the answer.

26:02
Rob Murray
Well, and what a cool way to connect with the customer.

26:04
Jordan Daneker
Yeah.

26:05
Rob Murray
You know, not only the life lessons and business lessons but also a great way to build rapport with a person who’s spending a lot of money on your business.

26:10
Jordan Daneker
Yep, yep.

26:11
Rob Murray
No one. So I mean, I’ve, you know, I’ve interviewed hundreds if not thousands of people, hundreds in the green industry. No one has ever said to talk to your customer the way that you’re sharing today. So I think that’s a huge opportunity for anybody listening to the show.

26:24
Jordan Daneker
Yep.

26:25
Rob Murray
So coming back then, full circle to your answer on the primary growth constraint, and it’s the entrepreneur having to develop themselves essentially so they can, you know, delegate and coach and what, like, so you had this wonderful customer tell you that you didn’t value yourself and then that messed you up. You started thinking about, okay, I need to figure out how to, you know, train some people. But what did you do? For example, if someone’s listening to this and they can see themselves in a similar position, you know, to your story, whether out mowing the lawn or doing whatever it is on the tools, they’ve made a decision. You know what? I want to elevate myself. I want to start delegating and coaching more. What was the first one or two things you did to make the change come to life?

27:10
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, I mean, one of the first things I would say is, you know, we work so hard at our craft that sometimes we forget to work on ourselves. And, you know, I really got into audiobooks, as crazy as that sounds. I was always riding; I always had my ear pods in. And, you know, the first, one of the first books I read was the Book of Why. I don’t know if you’ve ever, you know, read that. And it was just really trying to find what my purpose is. I think that, like the entrepreneurs of the day, you know, don’t get me wrong, I kind of grew up when social media was like, you know, really starting to get its foothold, right?

27:47
Jordan Daneker
But I almost feel like the entrepreneurs of today are at a disadvantage to some degree because it can appear as though somebody had instant success, right?

27:58
Rob Murray
Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. Well, everybody’s life coaches on Instagram, like, I’m not sure what.

28:04
Jordan Daneker
You have to be careful with those guys. A lot of those guys are great con artists; they’re great salesmen. You know, there are very few real guys who are willing to tell you that they struggled, right? They crawled before they walked, and they fell a lot. And I got kicked. You know, this is. You got kicked. I say this often: you know, I have 11 years in business, and in the last two years, we’ve done over $6 million in revenue this year, reaching just over 7. And it doesn’t, not about your revenue right to this day. And I feel like we’re very profitable, and I’m proud of that. I have still lost more money than I’ve made thus far at the 11-year mark. Now I’m hoping that that, you know, eventually, you know, changes.

28:53
Jordan Daneker
But at this point, just to tell you, at 11 years, I’ve lost more than I’ve made. And I’m not embarrassed to say that because I’ve learned a lot of lessons. And then I really think that we need to learn how we’re going to work on ourselves again. You have to figure out what makes sense to you. My ideal dream. I’m reading a book right now called Blue Collar Cash. In one of the exercises, the guy talks about drawing, taking a piece of paper out, and drawing what your ideal life looks like right on the paper. And so, you know, if you’re an entrepreneur that says, I’m just going to, you know, you’re not like me, and you want to have all these people, not everybody wants 25 people, right?

29:30
Rob Murray
I Hear that, too. Yeah, yeah.

29:31
Jordan Daneker
Then, it would be highly profitable, right? You need to get down to your core skill set. You love your craft, right? Learn how to make it efficient; learn how to make it so it doesn’t tear your body up. And learn how to plan for the future, right, in terms of, you know, what it be, what it looks like for retirement. So work on yourself. That would be my biggest thing. I’m constantly in self-help books. I’m constantly asking questions like, you have to be so humble. People always say there’s no such thing as a stupid question. Well, there isn’t, but the problem is nobody’s willing to ask the stupid question. People like to talk like that, but I could care less about what anyone thinks if I’m in a room. I’m always respectful, but I don’t care about looking like a dummy.

30:15
Jordan Daneker
I’ve been a professional failure my entire life. So. So, really, just working on your core attributes and your core self, and I would say more often than not, you probably need some leadership training. You know, I’ve taken Leadership 1, 2, and 3 through this curriculum online, and, you know, light bulbs go off, you know, things that you’re like, well, that makes sense. Well, this makes sense. And how can you know something that somebody hasn’t told you? And what good is experience if you were never trained the right way?

30:48
Rob Murray
So, yeah, yeah.

30:49
Jordan Daneker
I would really say, you know, those core skills are fundamentals. You know, there’s no recipe for being an incredibly successful entrepreneur because everybody’s grit is different. But there is a recipe for fundamentals. And a lot of people are not even willing to work on the fundamentals.

31:10
Rob Murray
Well, and I mean, you said a lot there that I think people maybe have a bit of, like, surface-level consciousness about. Some people have actually done the work, which is a big deal. And I think personal development and leadership development, you know, kind of go hand in hand. And I think one of the things you said there is that just because you’re practicing something doesn’t mean you’ve been trained properly. So. Yeah. What it reminded me of that quote with Bruce Lee. What is it about? I fear not the man of 10,000 kicks one time. It’s like I feel like I practiced one kick 10,000 times and got it figured out properly. So, the book you mentioned, you said the book of Why. Did you mean to start with Why by Simon Sinek?

31:48
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, Start With Why.

31:48
Rob Murray
Yeah. Cool, cool. And there was another book about why I haven’t heard of it. But I saw it. That’s why I wanted to validate, which is amazing. But if you look at other personal development, you know, resources, what are some other ones that have kind of hit you over the head with like, oh my God, this was a really worthwhile piece. And then also, can you share what that leadership curriculum was online? That 1, 2, and 3?

32:09
Jordan Daneker
Yeah. So I’ve got like a whole list of audiobooks that I go through now because, like, you know, if I’m on a plane, I have to find. I’m just a guy that needs to find productive time. Like, I feel like if I’m watching TV or doing something, I’m not being productive. So, I’ve got an entire list. But you know, Betsy, I want to say it’s Betsy Brown who wrote the 5-Second Rule. I will tell you that. You’d be shocked how many entrepreneurs don’t read HR books. There are a lot of really good HR ladies out there that have nuggets, right? You know, wanna, you know, among that list, you know, there’s a lot of books that hype you up, like David Goggins, right?

32:51
Jordan Daneker
People are all familiar, and those books are great, but the ones that tend to be less hype and more facts and, and they can be boring are really, you know, will really help you. But there’s this rule that I live by from a book I read. It’s called a five-second rule. And we constantly put things off, right? And I literally start a countdown. Like, I don’t want to call this customer. I don’t want to do this; I don’t want to do that. And, and really trying to get over that hurdle for me, I’m like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, dial the phone, right? I learned that from a book. And I treat that with my team. You know, even really, I hate to say this; my wife is going to kill me if I say this. My spouse, right?

33:30
Jordan Daneker
Like, because I love her. And sometimes we have disputes. We’ve been married for 15 years, right? And happened. Yeah, yeah. So, like, I’m like, all right, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, I got to go talk about this with her. And, like, we do that with our people. So that’s a great book. The Leadership Accountability was actually the National Fire Academy, believe it or not.

33:49
Rob Murray
Oh, cool.

33:50
Jordan Daneker
It’s crazy.

33:51
Rob Murray
Well, leadership comes in every form. Like it does, it’s not industry-specific by any stretch.

33:56
Jordan Daneker
And I get on wild goose chases, and I. One thing I am not bashful. And honestly my staff will tell you we have probably some of the most trained staff when it comes to our craft. I spend money on education. Now what’s funny about that is I’m a high school dropout. I don’t even have a diploma.

34:13
Rob Murray
The public school systems and, you know, post-secondary and real education may be a little different.

34:19
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, yeah. And so, like I always joke, I’m like, I care less about high school. Like, I finished 10th grade, right? Like I had math one. So, you know, the National Fire Academy, what was so interesting about that was a span of control. Like I’ve had, I have great leaders here whose span of control and my span of control are two different things. And you can take a really successful leader and really screw him up by giving him too much span of control. Like, you know, whether it be three guys, five guys. And so I would encourage, you know, also people to look at that. Right. Like, you know, everybody’s different. And so it was a National Fire Academy. And I don’t know what your other question is. I’m sorry, I got off on.

34:59
Rob Murray
No, no, you answer both of them. I was asking about another resource you mentioned, the Five-Second Rule, which is Mel Robbins. Is that right?

35:04
Jordan Daneker
Mel Robbins, Yeah. I always forget their name. Betsy Brown is the HR one. That, that she’s like that. I would say those HR books are really the core when you start building your administrative team. Their desires are so different from those of the guy who comes in and wants to swing a hammer. Like.

35:24
Rob Murray
Sure. Well, I mean, you say it sounds so intuitive, but I think some people just. It’s over. It’s like it’s an oversight.

35:31
Jordan Daneker
Mel Robbins. That was it. Yeah. Five seconds, like to this day. And like I preach the 5-Second Rule on all kinds of stuff. Like that, it sounds really corny, and it has changed a lot of my mental space in terms of just being more relaxed. Right.

35:50
Rob Murray
It is the Betsy Brown book. You’re Not the Boss of Me. Yeah.

35:52
Jordan Daneker
Betsy Brown. Yup. She’s got a couple. Yep.

35:55
Rob Murray
Yeah, yeah. Cool, cool.

35:56
Jordan Daneker
Yep, yep. And, and I mean, I’ve just been all over the map. I’ve read some duds, you know, Grant Cardone. I’m not a big Grant Cardone fan, but he has; he is a stud at hyping people up. And if you’re struggling with sales, I mean, you have to be like a Swiss army knife in today’s world. You know, a great entrepreneur is an ideal Swiss army knife. He’s got Scissors in one hand, he’s got this, he’s running with those, a knife in the other, tweezers here, this and that. Oh, by the way, he’s got a corkscrew to open a bottle of wine. When times are fun, you know, and so you. The more versatile you are, the better you’re going to be. And it is fun to coach people. It’s fun.

36:36
Rob Murray
So then somebody, as a final, like as we wrap up here, someone says they want to start coaching more. What are some of the tips you’d give somebody on coaching patience?

36:48
Jordan Daneker
You know, everybody learns at a different rate. It’s been really challenging for me. You know, I’ve. I’ve stood behind guys that I’ve watched trying to glue a fitting into a piece of pipe, and I just wanted to grab hold of them and smack the heck out of them. And, and, you know, if any. You are mothers or fathers.

37:11
Rob Murray
Yeah.

37:12
Jordan Daneker
You obviously are used to that, but you don’t know where people came from. You don’t know what their background is. You don’t know if they were as fortunate as you were to get certain training or had certain figures in their lives. And, you know, it’s more of a challenge to mentor somebody who hasn’t had that. But when you see them succeed, the fulfillment is triple to quadruple-fold. So I would, that would be my number one tip, which is, you know, to try to see it in multiple ways and listen. Sometimes, I find myself not a great listener. I want to tell you all these great things. I’m a big talker, and I’m really trying to focus on that as I’m not old, by no means, but I’m 38, and I’m really trying to learn how to listen more.

37:59
Jordan Daneker
And it’s tough because, as entrepreneurs, we think we know everything that’s cool.

38:04
Rob Murray
This then fully circles back to your original statement on letting go of stuff and not being the person who knows everything, being one of the biggest challenges for people to grow their companies. Super cool.

38:16
Jordan Daneker
Yeah. And, and not to, you know, real quick, I’ll say this. People are going to mess up. Let them mess up. Let them figure it out. I have been literally in a situation where I want to call and be like, this is how you got to do it. Let them mess up, and then talk about it. Why? It’s okay. It’s okay. Don’t let them kill anybody. But, you know, it’s okay, right?

38:36
Rob Murray
Yeah. No, that’s cool. I love that man. And so, here are a couple of resources you’ve already mentioned. Start with why Simon Sinek, you’re not the boss of me. Betsy Brown, Mel Robbins. The five-second rule. First, break all the rules. Have you heard that one?

38:53
Jordan Daneker
I have not heard that one. I will say that Simon Sinek has a ton of good ones, but yeah.

38:59
Rob Murray
Leaders, the last is great. The Infinite game, they’re all solid. I mean, as much as he is a bit of a pompous human, his content’s pretty epic.

39:05
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep, yep, yep.

39:11
Rob Murray
Did you get one more?

39:12
Jordan Daneker
No, I was just looking through my list trying to pull it up, but I don’t want to. I mean, there are so many over the years I’ve listened to. You know, we just have a lot of drive time in my area, and I don’t know. I will say that specifically to our trade right now, just for new guys, if you can even get new guys. Blue-Collar Cash has been huge because of it. There’s such a deficit in the trades right now. And I really believe that a, you know, these massive tech firms you hear about doing so well and, you know, I really believe that’s achievable through a construction or a maintenance firm. I really feel like that you’re really going to see people have a lot of success in the trades in the next five to 10 years.

39:55
Rob Murray
Well, I love it, and you’re in a good position to do it. And I think the landscape industry is just an epic spot, and I really appreciate your sharing. This is just like the standard. Like everybody’s just so open and willing to share what they’ve been through. So, I appreciate Jordan for doing it. I think that’s it for this episode. We’ll have to have you come back on and talk about how you run a family business because that’s got to have its own ups and downs and dynamics for sure.

40:19
Jordan Daneker
Yeah, I got my brothers here. I actually, my business partner, his brother works here. My nephew works here. His wife works here.

40:29
Rob Murray
Yeah, so that’s, that’s an episode in itself on communication and leadership from a different point of view in a big way. Thank you again for doing this, Jordan. Appreciate everybody for listening to another episode of the IM Landscape Growth Podcast.