When It’s Time to Start Working with an External Marketing Partner With Vanessa McQuade and Rob Murray

Karina:
If you own or manage a landscaping business, I’m guessing you’re already pretty busy. From early spring to late fall, there’s a whirlwind of installing new landscapes, maintaining existing ones, staying on top of design trends and new products, building relationships with clients, training your staff and fixing equipment, or even researching what to buy next. But let me ask you something… where does marketing fit into all of that?

If you’re a small or medium-sized business owner, don’t assume you have to do it all yourself. If marketing tasks are something you keep putting on the back burner, then this episode of the Landscape Ontario Podcast is for you. I’m your host, Karina Sinclair.

I’ve invited Vanessa McQuade and Rob Murray from Intrigue Media to talk about what it’s like to partner with a marketing agency. And in the same way you’re an expert in landscaping, Rob and Vanessa are experts in helping landscaping companies like yours grow revenue and build local awareness. In fact, one of their happy clients stated that since working with Intrigue, their revenues increased by 68% in just six months. So if costs or uncertainty have been holding you back, listen up. Today, we’re talking about budget expectations, setting marketing goals, and the value of building relationships with an external marketing agency—so you don’t have to do it all by yourself.

Karina:
Welcome to the podcast, Vanessa and Rob. I’m so glad you’re here today because I think a lot of small- and medium-sized business owners have questions related to marketing, but they don’t even know where to start or who to ask. They might not even be sure if marketing is right for them or whether they can afford it. And I know you’re both very passionate about seeing landscapers succeed in this space. So thanks for coming on the show to share your insights.

Vanessa: Thanks for having us.

Rob: Yeah. It’s an absolute pleasure. We’re pumped to be here.

Karina:
That’s great. Now, we all know that entrepreneurs wear a lot of hats, but a lot of these small business owners probably start off managing their own marketing. What are some signs that it’s time to delegate that role to somebody else?

Rob:
It’s a good question. Honestly, I think because there’s so much when someone says the word “marketing”—it covers things like signs on a yard, truck wraps, even the proposals you send to people, your website, your uniforms. If you think about marketing as anything that a prospect or a customer will interact with, it’s a pretty large category of work.

I think when we start to get a bit more specific around marketing, it’s about finding ways to attract new customers, engage current or past customers, and ultimately grow your business. The one piece that a lot of people miss right out of the gate is identifying the objective of their marketing investment—whether it’s time, money, or people.

If you’re doing marketing just for the sake of marketing, but you’ve already got lots of customers coming in and you’re happy with where things are, then keep it up. But if you’re in a place where your lead generation isn’t where you want it to be, or your referral sources aren’t as strong as they used to be, or you need more business to grow your company, then you’ve got to start with clear objectives.

For example, if you’re in November 2024, planning for 2025, and you sit down with your team to say, “Okay, this year we need 300 new leads. Whether they come from referrals, digital, print—whatever it may be, we need a plan to get those 300 leads through the door.”

If you’re not having those kinds of conversations, that’s probably a good sign that you need to start talking to a professional.

Vanessa:
And it’s also about reverse engineering those numbers to figure out exactly what your marketing needs to accomplish in order to hit those goals.

Rob:
Yeah, that’s a really good point Vanessa brings up, because many people don’t fully understand their revenue model. One tool we use with clients is something we call the “growth engine.” It’s essentially a revenue model that almost every landscape company operates on.

It’s pretty simple. You start with leads, then you look at your qualification rate. Out of ten people that inquire, how many are actually qualified? Meaning they have the budget and want the services you offer. Once you know that, you can measure how many of those qualified leads turn into paying customers.

Some businesses have clients pay for designs before starting a project, so you might measure how many of those design consultations turn into construction projects.

Once you’ve got a handle on those conversion rates, you can reverse engineer the numbers to understand exactly how many leads you need to meet your revenue goals.

Rob:
So, for example, if you need 20 projects, and your conversion rate for qualified prospects is 50%, then you’ll need 40 qualified prospects. And if only 4 out of every 10 inquiries are qualified, that means you’ll need 100 inquiries overall. Once you understand you need 100 inquiries, you can figure out how much it costs to generate each lead, and that naturally leads into a conversation about budgeting.

Karina:
Do you think this approach applies to really small companies? Maybe someone who’s only been in business for a couple of years, has just two or three people on their crew, and doesn’t want to take on big multimillion-dollar projects? What about those who want to stay small but still generate good revenue—would it still make sense for them to work with a marketing agency? And how can they stand out when so many companies use the same buzzwords, like “customer-centric” and “committed to quality”?

Vanessa:
The revenue model applies to businesses of any size. Even for small businesses, it’s about figuring out what you need. Maybe they want to stay small on purpose, which means they don’t need as many leads. If word-of-mouth referrals are meeting their goals, they might not need to partner with a marketing company yet.

But if they’ve hit a point where referrals aren’t enough to meet their goals, that’s when it’s time to consider marketing. As a rough rule of thumb, businesses typically allocate 2% to 5% of their revenue for marketing, depending on what they want to achieve.

For example, if you already have a solid foundation—like a good website and steady leads coming in—2% might be enough. But if you’re starting from scratch and need to build that foundation, you’re likely looking at 3% to 4%. If you’ve never done any marketing, even a small 2% budget might feel like a big jump, but you can start small and work your way up.

Rob:
Yeah, and that’s a really good point. For smaller businesses, the first question to ask is: Are you paying yourself enough to live the life you want? If the answer is no, that’s where you need to start.

If you are paying yourself, covering your team’s wages, and still have money left over, then you can think about investing in marketing to build a more predictable lead system. Even a $300,000 or $400,000 business can invest $7,000 to $8,000 in marketing. It doesn’t have to be a huge budget.

There are affordable options for smaller companies, like using a simple Google Ads strategy to generate leads during the shoulder season and peak season. You could run a campaign for $7,000 to $9,000 a year and see great results.

Karina:
So, for a small business, spending $7,000 or $8,000 on marketing could really make a difference if it’s done right.

Rob:
Exactly. And that’s the key—marketing done poorly is an expense you can’t afford. But marketing done properly is an investment that pays for itself.

A good marketing partner should talk about return on investment (ROI). This isn’t about hoping something works—there’s enough demand in the marketplace, and a good marketing partner should be able to show you how to capture your share.

Of course, there are always external factors, but a skilled marketing partner can demonstrate how to generate revenue. The caveat is that your sales process needs to be solid, because marketing can only bring in leads—you still have to close the deal.

Karina:
That’s such an important point—marketing should be an investment, not a gamble.

Vanessa:
Right. And for small businesses, $7,000 or $8,000 is a lot of money. If you don’t partner with someone who knows what they’re doing, it can feel like you wasted that money. But when you work with a partner who tracks data and sets clear goals, you can measure your results and know exactly what you’re getting.

Karina:
How can marketing help smaller companies stand out in a crowded market, especially when everyone’s using the same generic phrases on their websites, like “full-service design/build” or “committed to excellence”?

Vanessa:
It comes down to finding what you do best and repeating it. When you specialize in something, your team becomes more efficient, your clients are happier, and your marketing becomes more focused.

For one of our clients, we found that retaining walls were a great niche for them. It was an easy entry point for customers that often led to larger projects. Once they leaned into that niche, they became known for it—and it set them apart from other “full-service” companies.

Rob:
Exactly. At the start, it’s okay to say yes to everything just to get going. But once you reach a certain level—usually around the $1 million mark—you need to start saying no to grow. Your strategy becomes just as much about what you say no to as what you say yes to.

Karina:
So when you say “saying no to grow,” do you mean turning down smaller jobs or projects that don’t align with what the company wants to focus on?

Rob:
It depends on the business and what they’re really good at. For example, if the owner is a mason by trade, they might focus on high-end stonework and hardscapes as they grow. The strategy of what you say no to should be tailored to your strengths, your target customer, and your geographic area.

Karina:
What if a business already has someone in-house doing marketing—maybe they’re posting on social media or handling ads? Do they still need to work with an external marketing agency? And how can those roles complement each other?

Rob:
First things first—take your ads out of the newspaper. Seriously. Unless it’s a trade publication like Landscape Ontario, print ads in local newspapers are hard to measure, expensive, and have no shelf life.

Karina:
That’s an important distinction.

Rob:
Exactly. Trade publications are totally different. But local newspaper ads? They’re tough to justify unless you have a large budget and can afford to take a hit.

Now, about working with an internal marketing person—Vanessa, do you want to take this one?

Vanessa:
Sure. If you have someone in-house and they’re hitting your goals, that’s great. You might not need to partner with a marketing agency right now. But often, when businesses get to the point of hiring an internal marketing person, they want to level up. They might need more leads or want to hit bigger revenue targets.

In that case, partnering with an agency can help. The internal person can handle things like social media and content creation, while the agency focuses on lead generation. It’s a great partnership because, as you know, business owners are busy, and it’s hard to get content from them. An internal person makes that easier.

Also, instead of having one person trying to do everything, you get a team of specialists from the agency. It’s the best of both worlds.

Karina:
Marketing trends and platforms are always changing. How do you keep up with everything so that your clients don’t have to?

Vanessa:
It’s about having a partner who has the time to stay on top of those trends. As a landscaping entrepreneur, you’re busy running your business. It’s impossible for you to keep up with every new marketing trend, just like it would be impossible for us to stay on top of landscaping trends.

Our job is to stay ahead of the curve, test new strategies on ourselves, and only bring them to our clients if they work. And we always tie everything back to data—if a trend doesn’t deliver results, we don’t chase it.

Rob:
Yeah, a good example is TikTok. Everyone wanted to jump on it because it was blowing up. But while TikTok videos can go viral, that doesn’t necessarily help a local landscaping business. You might get millions of views, but if they’re not from potential local customers, what’s the point?

We apply a simple filter: Will this work for our client? That’s why we didn’t push TikTok when it wasn’t the right fit.

Another example is AI. It’s a massive technological shift, and while some are using it poorly, others are leveraging it well. The key is to use new tools in a way that maintains results.

At the end of the day, marketing trends will come and go, but the fundamental principle remains the same: People buy from people. Whether you’re using social media, digital ads, or something else, the goal is always to build trust and help people make good decisions.

Karina:
It sounds like business owners don’t need to have all the answers—they just need to find the right partner who can ask the right questions and guide them.

Vanessa:
Exactly. It’s not about knowing all the jargon; it’s about partnering with someone who can figure out what you need and deliver the right solution.

When someone calls us and says they need help with social media, we dig deeper. Often, the real issue isn’t social media—it’s that they’re not hitting their revenue goals. It’s our job to ask the right questions, understand their goals, and recommend a strategy that works.

Rob:
Yeah, a lot of people think they need to do what they see others doing. They see other companies on Instagram or TikTok and assume they should do the same. But that’s not always the right approach.

The key is to be where your customers are. If you’re a landscaping company, showing up on Google when people search for a landscaper is far more effective than trying to go viral on TikTok.

Your website should also be easy to use. If someone visits your site, they should be able to get a quote in less than 30 seconds. The process should be frictionless. If you’re not sure what that looks like, just think about how easy it is to buy something on Amazon—swipe, purchase, done.

Vanessa:
And don’t forget about Google Reviews.

Rob:
Yes, reviews are huge. People trust what others say about you more than what you say about yourself.

Karina:
It sounds like these business owners don’t need to have all the answers. The point is to seek out experts who understand marketing and trust that they’ll help build a plan that works.

Rob:
Exactly. And if you’re a landscaping entrepreneur listening to this, here’s where you should start:

1. Make sure your website is simple, clear, and easy to use.
2. Focus on search—whether that’s through organic SEO or paid ads on Google.

Once you’ve maxed out those efforts and you’re still not getting enough leads, that’s when you can move on to other channels.

Think of it like a bull’s-eye. The website is the center. The next ring is search. After that, everything else is just extra, and it may or may not hit the mark.

Karina:
Now, as we’re recording this, it’s the middle of summer—peak season for landscapers. Many of them are already stretched thin. Should they wait until things slow down before planning their marketing for next year, or should they be doing something now to get ahead?

Rob:
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.

Vanessa:
Yeah, we get a lot of calls at this time of year from people saying, “We need marketing now!” And while we’re happy to help, it’s always better to start earlier so you can build momentum before the busy season.

If you’re not hitting your revenue targets now, waiting isn’t going to help. Starting now gives you time to get your website and foundational pieces in order. SEO and Google Ads take time to show results, so the sooner you start, the better positioned you’ll be for next year.

Rob:
Right. There’s never a perfect time to start, but if cash flow is tight, fall might be a better time for some businesses. However, I can say with 100% confidence that those who start now will have a better spring next year than those who wait until November or January.

We had a client named Chris who saw the market shifting in 2022. He came to us in August because he wanted to be ahead of the game by spring 2023. We worked through the fall, made adjustments, and by February, his business was booming. Starting early gave us room to make mistakes, learn, and optimize before peak season hit.

Karina:
For those landscapers who feel overwhelmed right now and don’t think they have the bandwidth for marketing, isn’t that the whole point of working with an agency? To handle it for them so they can keep focusing on their customers?

Vanessa:
Exactly.

Rob:
We think of it like personal training. You don’t need to dedicate full days to it. We set up short sessions—45 minutes or an hour at a time—to get what we need and keep things moving.

We also act as an accountability partner. Everyone knows they should work on their business, not just in it. But carving out time for that is hard. Having scheduled sessions with us helps business owners stay on track without feeling overwhelmed.

Karina:
So it sounds like partnering with an agency lowers the barrier to entry. It makes it easier to start something that could significantly grow their business and support their team.

Rob:
Boom.

Vanessa:
Absolutely.

Karina:
Do you have any final advice for small- and medium-sized business owners listening to this?

Vanessa:
Yes. We didn’t dive into this in detail, but tracking is crucial. Whether you’re doing marketing yourself or working with a partner, you need to track everything—calls, form submissions, where leads are coming from, and which ones are converting.

There’s a great tool called WhatConverts that tracks leads from the moment they come in, all the way through to when they become paying customers. It even lets you assign a dollar value to each lead, which can feed back into Google’s algorithm to help find more high-value customers.

Using a tool like this helps you see which campaigns are working, so you can invest more in what’s driving results and stop wasting money on what isn’t.

Rob:
Game-changing tool.

Vanessa:
If you’re not sure where to start or how to track your leads, call us. We’re happy to help.

Rob:
One last thing I’d add is this: Your business is meant to serve you. If you feel like you’re constantly serving the business—missing dinners with family, sacrificing personal time—that’s a sign to step back and reevaluate what you want.

We’re a marketing company, so yes, we help people make money. But it’s also about making sure the business supports your life, not the other way around.

And one more thing—everything you want is possible. You just have to believe it. A great way to strengthen that belief is by joining a peer group. Whether it’s through an association like Landscape Ontario or a private group, being surrounded by people who’ve been where you are and have achieved more than you think is possible can be incredibly motivating.

Peer groups help you get your mindset right. And that’s crucial because, as entrepreneurs, you’re the ones taking all the risks—mortgaging your homes to buy equipment, hiring people, supporting local communities. You’re not alone, and there are people and resources out there to help.

Karina:
That’s such an important reminder. Running a business can be lonely, and the responsibility of supporting employees and meeting client expectations can be overwhelming. But if working with a marketing agency can help relieve some of that pressure, it’s definitely worth considering.

Thank you so much, Rob and Vanessa, for sharing your insights today. I hope our audience finds this conversation helpful and inspiring as they think about ways to grow their businesses.

Rob:
Thank you so much for having us.

Vanessa:
Yeah, thank you!

Karina:
It’s been my pleasure.