From Green to Gold: Navigating Business Growth in Landscaping with Frank Bourque

Robert
00:00
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the I am landscape growth podcast, where entrepreneurs help entrepreneurs grow faster, better, and stronger in the green industry, from leadership to sales to recruiting and operational excellence. We cover the topics holding entrepreneurs back and share how to get past those bottlenecks with the best in the industry. I’m your host, Rob Murray, co founder and CEO of Intrigue, a digital marketing company focused on helping landscape companies grow. So sit back and enjoy the show. All right. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another podcast of I am landscape growth. Today I have the honor of introducing Frank Bork. Most people I’ve probably heard of you, maybe they’re listening to this podcast, some maybe haven’t get a chance to learn a lot more today. Thank you very much for coming on the show and doing this.

Frank
00:47
Well, thanks for having me, Rob. Really appreciate it. Cool.

Robert
00:51
So, Frank, helping landscape and hardscape business owners manage and automate their business, increase team results, profits and freedom. Business consultant, coach, speaker, podcast, you name it. And just a really well respected and renowned name in the green industry. So, again, thanks for doing this. We start this off just to give some people some context, right. So as we’re going through your perspective, they understand where it’s coming from. So can you give us a quick kind of rundown of what you’re up to these days and kind of what’s led you there over the last couple of years?

Frank
01:22
Yeah, you know, I think my journey started by just having my own business, you know, which started over 20 years ago, which led me to going through the same ropes that everybody else learning about how to manage a business, manage employees, implement systems. And so even going through the economy crash in 2008, 2009, that was my main lesson. And I think this is where we transformed our business. We had over 100 employees. And so just the growing pains which everyone, I think, goes through at different levels. Today’s, you know, today’s topic is great because I think it’s going to help people see that everyone grows at different pace, just like I did. And. And then you evolve. And where it brought me was I wanted.

Frank
02:14
For me, the ultimate freedom was to be able to not only run my own business, but gain more and more freedom. So at one point, I sold my business and decided to just fully engage into the consulting part of it, the business, coaching part of it, public speaking with the green industry and helping business owners grow. And now I help businesses from anywhere from a million to over 50 million in revenue per year. So today we’ll talk about what’s common from the small companies to the larger companies and how do people move from one level or one stage to the next to grow their business?

Robert
02:54
Epic, man. Thanks, dude. All right, so theme of this entire podcast is around what are the growth constraints that entrepreneurs are challenged with these days, and how are we getting through them. Markets are shifting pretty dynamically these days. People say fluid a lot, whatever that might be. What do you see as a primary growth constraint on the day of this recording being August 18, 2023, 1st thing.

Frank
03:23
This summer has been totally different, I think, than the previous two or three. Every one of my clients doesn’t matter. Large, small, they’re all saying I’m not getting as many calls. It’s not as easy to get clients or contracts. You know, some with a very strong branding might get more referrals just organically. But generally, if you haven’t done your homework or you haven’t marketed before, or people don’t know your brand very well, then it’s time to think about it. And it’s time to think not only about that, but it’s also time to think about how do I attract people to my company, how do I retain people. So these are really the main topics. And I mean, people process tools, right? But essentially when the economy is shifting, you really need to think about and plan ahead.

Frank
04:16
And that’s been my main focus with my clients right now, is like, hey, let’s be proactive in attracting people, in attracting clients, but the ones that you want, not just randomly. So, that’s my main focus right now is looking at how can we future proof the business, no matter what kind of economy or slowdown that we’re going to have to face or that’s coming our way, we just, nobody knows. But hey, if you’re ready, all the better, right?

Robert
04:44
Yeah, that’s cool. And most of your clients canadian or you have american clients too?

Frank
04:48
I would say about 75% US and 25% canadian. Just that I do a lot of events in the US.

Robert
04:55
So are you seeing that across the board in the states and in Canada?

Frank
05:03
Absolutely. Yeah. From the west coast to the east coast, the central to up north here, whether it’s even Toronto or Ottawa, Montreal, even the east coast, west coast. Absolutely. Yeah. We’re just a different trend.

Robert
05:20
So as a marketplace slows down a little bit, because before even you said it right, the last two years, if you could do the job, you got the job. Essentially, competitive quotes weren’t really a thing. Less tire kickers. The fact that you could even show up was a competitive advantage. Now to a shifting marketplace where people are a bit more scrutinous. There’s a little less of them, maybe a lot less of them, depending on where you are. So what are you seeing that’s working for folks? Because you talked about this idea just quickly as you were explaining the kind of nature of market right now.

Robert
05:56
This idea of being able to attract people, customers and team, and this idea of branding, which can be pretty nebulous for folks when it comes to like, okay, yeah, branding, like, whatever, Nike, swoosh, it kind of gets left to the side and people don’t really understand the impact of it. Can you just break that down a little bit for us to help people understand, like, not only what it is, but what you’re seeing some folks do that’s helping them win?

Frank
06:18
Yeah. I really identify always, like, five things when it comes back to constraints, stuff that kind of slows people down in any economy, but especially in this economy. My top five for me is first, it always starts with mindset, because if you’re going to an economy that’s slowing down and you panic, then, hey, you’re going into fear mode. And we never make great decisions in fear mode. So I try to try. First, hey, let’s not focus on what you don’t control. Focus on what you can control. And what you can control is to be more proactive, have a better plan, steer people in the right direction, better leadership. Take your time in hiring. Fire fast if you need to. You know, if it’s not working or it’s not working out, you have to drag it all longer than you need to.

Frank
07:06
But for me, it’s first, it’s mindset. Without it, you know, we’re not much. Because if I think Henry Ford said it the best, like, whether you think you can or where you think you can’t, you’re right. So that starts there. And for me, I make sure that my client has a mindset. And I always say, hey, would you want your employees to have that mindset? You know, always, you know, fearing the worst. So not putting in the effort or just saying, hey, I, you know, market’s going to crash, so might as well. Just. So it’s, how do we see the future and how proactive can we be? So first is mindset, second is it’ll always come back to how you use your time. Right.

Frank
07:48
So in a market that kind of slows down if you’re spending all your time on site, not focused on getting more clients, all of a sudden you run out of job. We all have the same amount of time, but for some reason, some people just really use it well and they’re super efficient at it, and they keep growing their business every year, despite the economy, despite the lack of, you know, labor out there that, you know, everyone’s talking about, those people with the right mindset do not focus on the excuses. They just say, hey, I got to find people. That’s it. That’s all. I got to talk to more people. I got to network. I got to build my relationships. I got to talk to schools. I got to go to colleges.

Frank
08:24
I got to go proactively meet more people at big events like landscape Ontario. Right. There’s a big event coming in January. Nobody should miss that. The opportunity to learn, connect with people, make new connections, meet organization or firms that can help them better market themselves to get out there a little bit more. The best people I know with the less people issues, which would be my third growth constraints, is when you are looking for people or stuck because you don’t have the right people or your people are not in the right position, you’re gonna feel some stress. So, to me, companies who really focus on the people first see a lot more results because people know when you care, like, and people don’t care before they know you care. Right.

Frank
09:16
So if your employees have a feeling that all you’re thinking about is money, profit, and jobs getting done fast, then they know they’re not first, and they won’t put you first. They won’t care about your goals. So the employees or the employers that have the best results with their employees or people and attracting more are the ones that really put the focus on saying, hey, we got to build a career plan for you. We got to onboard you better, we got to train you better. We got to make sure you understand your task. We got to make sure you understand your responsibilities, how to do it, why to do it, and how much of an impact you’re going to have, which that’s purpose. Right. If you have an impact and you know you’re having an impact, you’re going to love your job.

Frank
09:58
If every day you come in and there’s no purpose or you don’t feel there’s an impact, who cares, right?

Robert
10:03
Maybe don’t even show up, right? Yeah. The people, first thing I just think is so important, and one of the things I just want to mention to the audience, if you get a chance to listen to the other podcasts we’ve done. So we’re also interviewing a bunch of folks from, like, different levels of associations across Canada and the US because they have a neat perspective like you, where they get to see like lots of members and the issues they have. But this common component in all the successful or most successful companies within these associations across North America, it’s from Florida to California, Texas to New Brunswick to everywhere, is a people first approach where they prioritize training and safety, ones that focus on training and safety win.

Robert
10:47
And I think you’re just, you’re touching on that idea beautifully and that idea that, you know, no one cares until they know you care. I think John C. Maxwell said you have to win someone’s heart before you can ask for their hands. It’s so important. So I’m going to come back to all these, all five. I just wanted to mention, though, I think that one’s a huge one and there’s a bunch of episodes that people can listen to that really touch on it and how, which we’ll get back to. So what’s number four?

Frank
11:12
Number four is process. Right. So knowing in which stage of business you’re in is going to help you to identify the processes that you need and the systems that you need. So I’ll give you an example. I see some businesses move out of, like the business owner is on the field. He decides one year, hey, I’m going to just move out of the field, work in the office, right, because he reads a book like the Emyth and says, my time is better spent in the office, so I’m just going to trust my people.

Frank
11:43
But what he doesn’t realize is that if he hasn’t put skills competency first and if he hasn’t trained his people, and if it’s not organized, if people don’t know in which order to do it, if he’s putting out fires every day, because, you know, there’s no concrete way of doing things, then it’s going to be really hard. So if you operate like a stage two business, which is you’re trying to move more in the office, stage one would be you’re on the field. Well, if you do it too quickly, you’re going to feel a lot of stress and then you’ll have to go back to the field and then you’ll say, well, I tried. It doesn’t work for me.

Robert
12:19
Yeah. If you want to do it right, you got to do yourself right.

Frank
12:22
And so you have five stages that I commonly work. And that’s one of the first things I identify when I do like a business audit. Just like a, just like looking at how the business operates. So. So my. The most common mistake I see is businesses operate at the wrong level or the wrong stage of business. And in each stage, you can do certain things for your sales, marketing, admin, production that’s actually gonna help you to systemize it in a way where you’re gonna be more consistent, it’s gonna be repeatable, and people are gonna understand, like, hey, our company operates a certain way. We know how it operates. It’s very consistent. We know who to talk to when there’s an issue. We know what to do when there’s an issue. We know what to do. Every day we have a plan every day.

Frank
13:06
We have a goal every day. Right? So for me, it starts with knowing which stage of business you’re in. Stage three would be your focus more on sales, because now you want to grow the teams. You want to, you need more sales, you need more revenue, and you need to focus on the business systems that are going to set your teams the right way with the right leadership. Stage four would be really letting go of the control. So giving control more to your managers, your leaders who are going to inspire people to learn how to be. You’re going to be building more and more leaders to help you build your business. And then stage five would be, you’re fully systemized, you’re the CEO. You don’t have to go necessarily to the office every day, but you’re.

Frank
13:51
You have the pulse of your business because you know what’s going on. You basically know, like, hey, looking at my numbers, my KPI’s right, the numbers that tell you, hey, the revenue, the profit, the efficiency, you know if it’s going well or not in your business. So that would be a stage five, fully systemized, automated. That’s the best place to be when you want to sell your business because it’s very valuable at that point. And so I identify which stage of business they’re in to identify which process we’re going to take to help the business owner. And then we build a strategic plan. On the strategic plan, it’s like, hey, what does your business look like short term, long term? What are your core values?

Frank
14:29
People think, and this is funny, because often talk to companies under a million and they’re like, I don’t need to focus on core values right now, Frank. I just want to build a business. Right? And I’m like, yeah, but if we don’t build something with your core values, you’re going to end up building a business you don’t want because you’re going to end up having people who don’t care maybe about quality, maybe you’ll hire anyone that comes to your door. And if only half of the people you hire care about quality, and it’s not in line with your core value, which is quality is number one, then you’re going to be in trouble. Right? It’s going to. It’s going to be painful.

Robert
15:00
Your blood pressure is going to rise because you’re going to be sitting there shaking your head, why are people doing things the way that they’re doing them? I love that, man. Like, it’s never too early to get core values figured out. It’s actually probably even easier to establish them when you’re smaller, Jeff.

Frank
15:11
Yeah, exactly. I’ve kind of just realize to which point core values are important, because every time you have a problem in the business, you say, hey, is this person, let’s say, is this decision or this person or this client in lined with our core values? If not, then go the opposite direction. If one of your core values is having a place where people are really happy, then you’re going to have to people first. Like, it’s. It’s. That’s as simple as that. And when you put people first, the business owner doesn’t go out and buy the biggest truck, and then his employees have an older truck on the site that, you know, that breaks down all the time. But I’ve seen that all the time.

Frank
15:55
It’s like, no, if you’re people first, everyone is put on that same level where it’s like, no, we care about you. We care about your future. We care about your career. We care about your purpose here, and we care how, you’re going to be doing your work, because we want you to succeed. Right? That’s awesome.

Robert
16:11
And then, so, going back to the five constraints process. Number four. Number five.

Frank
16:15
Five would be your tools, but not just, we think, when we talk to landscapers, we talk about tools. They’re like, yeah, what’s. I’m going to buy my next excavator or piece of equipment? I’m talking about tools like, hey, first you got to know your numbers. So you need a business management software budgeting software that can help you know where you fit. Right. So are you profitable the way you’re pricing your jobs? Sometimes people work five years, ten years, 20 years before they find out that they’re not profitable. Right. And we haven’t made money on a.

Robert
16:45
Retaining wall in 20 years. What are we doing?

Frank
16:47
Yeah, so tools. Tools can be software. That’s where I would start if I had to go back 20 years. I would start with the right software and people say, oh, it’s two, three, $400 a month, whatever, or more this, if you don’t take it this money, you’ll never make it. So if you think $400 a month is expensive, for example, wait till you see what happens if you don’t have it, right? So I would save my money, have a little, you know, a little bit aside for like my main tool. Main tools is like business management software. It’s also hiring tools. So it’s like having people, whether it’s like something like indeed getting to know more about sites, like indeed that can help you find people. Tools could be resources, it could be people that can help you find talent, right.

Frank
17:39
It could be on site tool as well. So for your team, my clients always know what’s the next piece of equipment or tool that they’re going to buy for their teams. But they don’t buy the day that they need it. They know that it’s coming because they already know it’s budgeted for. And because if you don’t budget for it, all of a sudden notice you haven’t been profitable at all that year because you spent too much on tools. And it doesn’t necessarily make you profitable if you only use it one job or two jobs. I’ve noticed that a lot, too. People buy one piece of equipment that they can use one site, and so everything’s planned. And then there’s also leadership tools. I consider training part of the toolbox, and then obviously there’s the marketing tools.

Frank
18:24
People don’t realize that now more than ever, usually I don’t. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’d say that you have to put between two to 5% aside for your marketing as a minimum. And then if you don’t have to use it, great. But if you have it aside, at least then you can put some of that money for hiring people. You can put some of that money for marketing for finding clients. But then you’re targeting the right people. And when marketing is done the right way, man, it could be your best tool. So a good marketing system, hallelujah. Yeah, I’m talking your language, no doubt, but a good marketing system. And when you have a good market ism, I know you guys work with your clients with this. You always, you also have to have a sales system.

Frank
19:13
So for me, a big tool is knowing exactly how to take a lead. Because a lot of people have a lot of leads, but they don’t know what to do with the leads when they come in because they’re too busy. Right.

Robert
19:23
So, which is insane and also very true. So there’s so much here on these five pieces. I’m going to whip through the five and just go a little bit deeper on each one. And I think we’ll probably, you know, we could probably do an episode on each of them. Okay. Mindset number one. First of all, it’s really interesting. I’ve done whatever, maybe 1516 interviews with landscape entrepreneurs, probably over 100 with entrepreneurs overall. And there’s a select few, maybe one in ten or one in 15 that will say, when I ask about growth constraints, they’ll say me. And they are aware that they have to grow themselves. When you look at folks and you’re talking about mindset, what kind of tools, resources, whatever approaches do you recommend or work with people on to start building that mindset?

Frank
20:19
First and foremost, I help people when we start that process with mindset. If I see resistance or if I see some positive, like someone who has a really positive mindset and maybe a lot of qualities on that end to better work with people, I conduct an assessment, like a personally, a personality assessment, to know, like, hey, you know, like, we can categorize people in, like, four different categories. My approach is going to be different with all those categories. The first one, if I give you an example, if I am dealing with a dominant personality, I know that those people are just, they get stuff done, right? Like people who are dominant personalities, they just want you to go right to the point. Don’t waste my time, Frank. Just tell me what I need to do. I’m gonna go out. I’m gonna do it.

Frank
21:03
No patience there. But it’s good because they get stuff done.

Robert
21:05
They drive.

Frank
21:06
Then we have the people that are really social and, you know, like, they just, you don’t put three of those one crew because usually they’ll just talk all day. Right. But it’s important to know, you know, with that personality, I got to connect with that person first. If I connect with that person first on the social side, I can impact his mindset a lot faster. And it’s the same for business owners. And then if you’re more on the, you know, you have those personalities that are more like keel.

Robert
21:37
Never too high. Never too low.

Frank
21:39
Yeah.

Robert
21:39
So don’t win the race.

Frank
21:41
Yeah. So for me, if I’m a d dominant, right, and I’m pushy with those people, I will not be able to connect with them. I will not be able to help change the mindset. So. And then the other ones, like, think about an accountant, right? Very conscientious of. He needs the proof. It’s. It’s black or white. A decision can only be good or bad.

Robert
22:01
Driven.

Frank
22:02
Yeah, right. My dad’s like that. He needs his routine. He needs to know, you know, it’s done in a certain order, and it’s good.

Robert
22:08
Agendas, planning.

Frank
22:10
Agendas, planning. So with those people to connect with their mindset and to get them to change the mindset a little bit, I have to know that I have to start with whether they’re at. So I always keep that in mind. So in order to help the mindset, I start with knowing where they’re. Where they’re at. And when I hear someone say something like, oh, you know, I can’t trust my employees, my, you know, I don’t have people that can help me take care of my business, well, that tells me that it always starts at the top, right? Problems always starts at the top.

Robert
22:44
So, yeah, shit rolls downhill.

Frank
22:46
Right? So if you get one person that’s blaming other people, and he’s saying they’re not good, they suck. Well, then I’m. Without telling them directly, if they’re dominant, I’ll probably tell them directly. But essentially what I’m getting at is with them is trying to say, hey, it’s always comes back to the person on top. So if you’re going to blame someone else, well, Hong Kong come back to you and say, well, what are you doing? That’s not solving that problem? And that’s my biggest hurdle. It’s always my biggest hurdle. It’s the mindset. And so there’s assessment tools that you can do. There’s exercises that we can do. There’s questionnaires that we give people, but. And, you know, at the end of the podcast today, I’ll give, like, a call to action for people to ask themselves some questions.

Frank
23:29
But essentially what I’m looking at, like, you have to ask yourself for the mindset. Would you want people to have your mindset in your business?

Robert
23:40
I love it, man.

Frank
23:41
It’s as simple as that.

Robert
23:42
Well, and I quoted John C. Maxwell earlier, but he had another one, the law of the mirror. So the book 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, I read whatever maybe ten years ago, and it was essentially just a constant, you know, punch to the gut as I’m realizing everything’s my fault. But the law of the mirror was like, everything happens for two reasons. Either you model it or you settle for it.

Frank
24:05
Wow.

Robert
24:05
Yeah, that’s I was just like, oh. And then it’s all about raising our standards. Another great one. I’m not sure if you’ve had a chance to check it out. Carol dweck, growth mindset.

Frank
24:16
Heard the name. Yep.

Robert
24:17
Absolutely. It’s epic. And one of the things in that I found really fascinating and I share with people is this idea around, like, saying something like, my people. I can’t trust my people. That is a determination, right? Yeah, that’s fixed. They’re saying it as if the color of their eyes, like, it can’t change. And then in a book, and she talks about this with kids and with adults, but this idea of, like, yet and just, like, having this idea that you can change over time if you want to, but the decision has to start from within. I think the idea of success being between the ears as the first step, Frank, is pretty badass, man. I really appreciate you sharing that. Okay, so time.

Frank
24:59
Time management, right? When I asking or when I’m asking questions with a client of mine, you know, who wants to improve their business, I look at how they spend their time. So it’s as simple as saying, hey, put down on paper every day what you’re doing in a week. And when you’re. When I noticed that people do low level tasks and they could delegate it. We’ll talk about execution later on because I have a few, like, an acronym people can use to not only execute better, but to remember how to delegate better. And so that’s one of the biggest mistakes, is thinking that you’re the only one who can do it in your business. My rule of thumb is saying, hey, if you want to spend your time better, you got to learn to delegate better.

Frank
25:43
And my rule of thumb is, if someone can do it 80% as well as you do it well, then start delegating it. And there’s, like, to me, there’s, like, four stages to delegation. It really has to start with, like, showing them being the one who shows exactly what to do. Then you let them try. You let them make mistakes or you coach them along the way, but you stay next to them. You can’t just explain it and leave. You have to stay there, take a look at it. I told them once, right, they should remember every time. And then the third is, like, letting them try on their own once they’ve succeeded with you next to them and then asking them to come back with some feedback to know how it went.

Frank
26:19
And then when they can do that, well, several times, then, yeah, you let them go. And if there’s an issue, they respond back. But sometimes we just go through too fast. So time management for me is take a look at your weekly activities. And if you have a lot of low level tasks, that if you’re the business owner and you’re picking up materials, that’s something you could pay someone 1518, $20 an hour to do. You should be focused on growing the business, building the relationships, making sure you get the right price, the right numbers, making sure that your teams are efficient on site. So responding to emails all day is not the most productive thing to do. And I see some business owners focus on all the low level tasks.

Frank
27:02
So ask yourself, is that something I could pay someone else less, you know, who could be happy doing it, but I could pay them less where I could be making 100, 200, $500,000 an hour doing something else that helps my business. Right. Getting a huge contract, that’s an example of making a few hundred dollars more an hour to your pay as a business owner, for example.

Robert
27:24
So one of the on this idea, because it’s kind of like priority management, you know, we have this idea that time management is usually a result of setting priorities properly and then making sure those priorities are in your calendar. Kind of like what you’re saying in terms of your weekly focus. What are like, kind of the top three priorities? And you’ve kind of alluded to them just in the way that you’re explaining it now. But sometimes I talk to entrepreneurs and they’re just like, I know I’m supposed to prioritize my time. I know I’m supposed to be doing things at a high level in the CEO, but like, what is it? You know, what am I supposed to be focused on?

Robert
27:55
And it kind of seems like the focus might shift at the stage of business, but what would you see as like, the common top two, three priorities that a leader should be really kind of hammering home?

Frank
28:05
Top priorities would, for me would be, do you know what you need to do tomorrow? Not, not like figuring out that this morning what needs to do today is like tomorrow, what do you need to do? Who needs to do what? Right. So you need to know exactly who’s doing what and why, and then also making sure everyone has the resources that they need on a daily basis. Making sure that if you’re going to delegate something, that you have a plan well laid out for them that they can understand, and also it’s monitoring the progress. So if you’re never tracking anything, it means that you don’t know if you failed or if you’ve won until it’s maybe too late. So I’ll give you an example.

Frank
28:50
I tell people all the time, if you go see whether it’s a hockey game, football, or whatever you’re interested in, right? Like, what would happen if there was no scoreboard? So there would just be scores and, you know, nobody would be tracking penalties or anything like that. It would be chaos, right? And so for businesses that don’t try track anything at all, they don’t have a scoreboard. As simple as just how much do we, how much money do we need to make today? Did we reach that goal? And what do we need to do tomorrow in order to reach that revenue goal? Everyone should know how much money they need to make on a daily basis. On average, everyone.

Robert
29:26
There’s so much beauty and simplicity. And when, you know, some people are listening to this, they might have that figured out and they’re probably loving it. And then some people don’t have it figured out and they’re like, okay, I don’t think it’d be too difficult to figure that out. That idea of a scoreboard and it being what’s the daily revenue required? And did we hit it? What do we need tomorrow? That’s beautifully simple, man. All right, so next one, process. Oh, no. People first. You said time now. People first. People first. This one I got a couple of pieces on. So what do you mean by that? And what can people start doing to make that come to life?

Frank
29:55
For me, people first means, does everyone who is already working with you for you, do they understand what their roles and responsibilities are? Are they in the right position? If so, if not, are you guiding them well? And in order to retain them, let’s start with just the people you already have. Okay, so if you are those people, you got to take care of them. Do you have the right people? Are they competent in their job? If they’re not, comes back to the owner. Right. It comes back to the person in charge saying, hey, I think I’m going to spend a little bit time with you because you’re really good at doing this. But if we can improve these tasks or whatever it is they’re working on. Yeah, absolutely. We can give you a raise because that’s going to help bring more value.

Frank
30:47
It’s going to help bring the team up, it’s going to make us more efficient, whatever that is. And so people first, for me is always be on the lookout of what your people need. Do they have the right resources? But also to attract more people, you have to build that culture within your company. If you can have the. I always tell people right now you’re looking for people you have an ad on. Indeed, for example. So that’s great. You’re going to attract a bunch of people. You’re going to interview people. What if you find the best candidate ever, but you’re not ready to welcome them? Let’s say you have no systems. Actually, everyone has systems. Doesn’t mean they’re great systems. Right, but everyone has systems. But if you have great systems and people show up, they’re going to be like, wow, this company’s organized.

Frank
31:35
And I don’t know about you, but I’ve never met a team that is disorganized, that is happy. Never happened. So if you are organized, then, yes, you can welcome someone to come into your company, work for you, and they’ll stay a lot longer. And if you’re organized, chances are your culture, your business culture, if you have good values, you’re organized. You’re going to keep those people a lot longer because people are happy in a place where they understand what’s going on. It’s organized, it’s efficient. People are happy when proud of the.

Robert
32:06
Work that they do, whether it’s at the office or in the field. So one of the things I hear a lot, and we do a lot of stuff, you know, similar to what you’re saying. I mean, we’re obviously always trying to improve. But some people will ask me, like, how do you have the time to do that? Or some people say, like, I don’t have time to do that.

Frank
32:23
Yeah.

Robert
32:24
What do you say to those folks?

Frank
32:25
I always say, spend a minimum of 1 hour a day on the most important task, and it always comes back to people and numbers. So it’s, if you’re not doing that, then I would say, hey, good luck.

Robert
32:41
And it’s beautiful, though, right? I was talking to this gentleman. His name is Scott Tolson. He’s got an episode that’ll be published soon. He’s part of the Mid America Green Industry Council. Got a business out in. Where is it? It’s not St. Louis. Anyway, whatever. Mid America.

Frank
33:01
Yeah.

Robert
33:02
But he said you manage numbers and you lead people.

Frank
33:05
Oh, wow. Yep.

Robert
33:07
And, like, if you don’t have time to lead people, they will probably leave you.

Frank
33:13
Yeah.

Robert
33:15
Or you’re gonna spend all your time putting out fires. So why not get ahead of it and start leading your folks? Which I think is awesome, man. I really appreciate you sharing that. Okay. Process like do to make that come to life.

Frank
33:28
The process, to me, it starts, we talked about strategic plan, but every day you should have a plan, or your crews, or your teams, or your employees, everyone should have a plan. Everyone should know where they’re going in advance. It’s not like a last minute thing. If it is a last minute thing, all you’re going to be doing is putting out fires all day, all week, all year. So for me, it’s having a plan for each day, having goals every day, like I said, knowing what they need to, what needs to get done, identifying priorities, like you said, and execution. Like, we’ll get to execution in a second. But for me, execution means, do you? Because most business owners, I meet people all the time, that has 20 years, 25, 30 years in business.

Frank
34:15
For some people, they just repeated the same year for 30 years. So to me, whether you have 20 years experience or 45, as long as you’re learning from those mistakes and you’re doing better every year, great, then you’re growing. But for me, executing the right way is most business owners know what they need to do, but sometimes they don’t know the order. So when were talking about the stages of business, when you know which stage of business you’re in, then it’s so much easier to know. Okay, here’s the process I’m going to use until I reach the next stage of business, because then I’ll have someone managing that department. But until then, this is the process I’m going to use.

Frank
34:53
So in order to have a good process for everything, for production, for your stuff, on the admin side, you need to, in order to execute properly, you need to identify the priorities, but the order also in which you’re going to do it, because sometimes you can shoot yourself in the foot if you go too quickly or you make decision based on impulse or emotion. And I don’t know if you’ve heard this before, but I’m tracking this every year just to see. But as people get tired through the year, especially in the landscape business, or any trade for that matter, they make more impulsive decisions. And, and so for business owners that are working on the field, they have ten hats every day, right. They’re managing crisis and employees. So payroll, and everything else, right?

Frank
35:41
So I tell them every year, we need to try to delegate something every year. So if you’re making more money next year, we’re hiring your bookkeeper. Right? So that when you have, please, for.

Robert
35:51
The love of God, hire the bookkeeper.

Frank
35:53
Let’s start with that, right? But, so process is so important, and I think it’s process just means oftentimes the order in which you do stuff. And is it repeatable? Is that something that you can, that can be consistent? Is that something that you can repeat and is that something that people can understand?

Robert
36:10
Yeah, that’s cool, man. And I honestly, I think we could do an episode literally on each one of these. And we probably should, . Okay, tools. I want to ask you a couple of quick questions because we’re going to wrap up the next, whatever, five, seven minutes. You mentioned business management, hiring, training, marketing, sales process. But business management software, do you have any recommendations? Do you have a couple of tools that you think just kick ass?

Frank
36:34
To me, simple is better. Intuitive software is better. It’s something that you, I mean, it’s going to take effort to implement anything. But to me, I think the one that’s had the most success with some of the crews I work with, I would say from the one to $5 million range is or even less than 1 million would be synced up. Synced up. What I love about them, they focus their software on budgeting first. So when you budget first, then you make your bids, your estimates, your quoting, based on your numbers, not somebody else’s square footage price, but what you need to get the job done. But on top of that, what I love about it, they use the color system. So when your business is doing well, when your numbers are great, everything appears in green, right?

Frank
37:25
If you’re in the positive, you’re in green. But as soon as your hours start going over, well, it tells you everything turns yellow. And then when you’re in the red, it means, hey, it’s, you’re getting there. You better fix it soon, right? Or find a solution. But, so I like that because the cruise can know where they’re at and easily. And the same for the business owner. So to me, synced up element is good as well. You have aspire for larger companies. They have more needs. They have a lot more stuff they’re trying to track.

Robert
37:55
More complexity, for sure.

Frank
37:57
More complexity. Yep.

Robert
37:58
Love it, man. Okay. Synced up LMN, aspire. That’s a couple of awesome recommendations. You mentioned hiring, you mentioned indeed, everybody uses it. Any thoughts on Glassdoor? Like, we see a lot of people not using Glassdoor. They actually have glassdoor profiles. They don’t even know about it.

Frank
38:14
It, it’s scary, right? Because now it’s like the LinkedIn of looking for your next employer. But if you have a business and you’re not there yet and someone created a profile for you, it could be positive. Or negative.

Robert
38:29
Normally if they created it for you, we find.

Frank
38:31
Yeah, exactly. So it’s putting your chances, the luck on your side by identifying, branding your business the way you want people to see your business. So essentially that’s an awesome tool. I think it’s like, hey, put yourself out there as in many places as you can. Right. Be present on glassdoor, be present on indie, be present at the, with your landscape associations. You know, the people who show up at these trainings at landscape associations, even if they work for other companies, sometimes they want to change. But if they get to know who you are as a company, they’ve heard about you. They, they know how well you do things. Your organization maybe, right, you’re out there, you’re putting out good content. You seem like someone who would be really great to work for.

Frank
39:26
Then eventually you’re going to attract these people who are just looking for change, just looking for a new challenge, just looking for maybe the next level, of.

Robert
39:36
It’s awesome too because they’re in the industry, they’re at the associations. They’re almost by definition engaged folks because they’re learning at these places. what a like kind of diamond under your feet perspective. I think that’s super important. okay, so you mentioned an acronym on delegation, execution and delegation. What’s that?

Frank
39:59
So I think about like, to me it’s red light but it’s just red r E d. So when you want to execute something very well, you’re most likely if you’re a business owner, if you’re a good business owner, you’re going to look to see do I have to do it or do I have someone I can delegate to that would be great for this task. Right. So the R stands for responsibility. So responsibility means make sure that the person knows what they need to do. So their role, their responsibility, the details of the tasks, why this task is important and how them fulfilling it has an impact, whether it’s on the client, whether it’s on the team, on the company that gives purpose. So first is R for responsibility. The next one is empowerment. E for empowerment.

Frank
40:48
So make sure that your employees are fully empowered. They have the authority that the right people have the authority, the resources to be successful. Right. So think through what you have, what you need to get done. Make sure they have the right tools, make sure they have the right connections. And make sure that you ask them if they need anything else. Because sometimes you think you’ve provided everything that your employees need, but there might be something you’re not thinking about that.

Robert
41:19
Just, it’s so interesting, man. Like, we do this and not just us. It’s a gallup poll, international survey. The, it’s called a q twelve or something like that. And one of the statements that is, it goes from very strongly disagree to strongly agree. One of the statements is, I have the tools and equipment to do my job well every day. And we do it ever, what, twice a year? But sometimes we’ll get responses and it’ll be like, agree. So there’s a gap. It’s not strongly agree. And what is it? And they’re like, clarity. I don’t have clarity. I’m like, oh, snap. Or they’re like, whatever. Ergonomics something or whatever. To your point, if we don’t ask, we don’t know. And we might think we got everything they need, but if they’ve missing something, we need to know.

Frank
42:01
Yeah, so true. And the last one would be a deadline, right? I’ve, you know, setting expectations for when it needs to be completed by, when there’s no deadline, people or human beings by default will do whatever at their own pace if they’re not given a deadline, right. So if you have someone who’s self motivated, great, it might get done quick. But if you have someone who’s like, hey, nobody looks stressed about this, I’m going to take my time. So it helps people to stay organized, to stay on top of things, and it gives them an understanding of what the company needs, right, to be profitable. And on top of that is ensure that there’s buy into what they’re into, what they’re doing. You can tell someone, hey, this needs to be done by Friday.

Frank
42:51
But if you don’t ask them, you know how they’re gonna get there, or if you show them how to get there, right? Is it reasonable? So looking or talking through different objections maybe might be helpful, but you have to be aware. And I think as business owners, employers, we often communicate something, and everyone’s busy. Sometimes we forget to just take one extra pause and say, do you need anything else? Does this make sense? Can I help you with something that you might not have? And it’s just that pause, right? Giving someone a task is fine, but like all these little things has so much more impact when you take the time to break it down like that. So responsibility, empowerment and deadline are, to me, essential to execute better, to motivate and, but also to delegate.

Frank
43:49
And so to me, delegation is something that everyone needs to learn to do to grow especially.

Robert
43:58
Yeah, I mean, and I love how it all kind of, it all fits together and how you simplify, you know, this whole thing, because if you don’t delegate, how do you get to that next stage? How do you get out of the field? How do you stop managing the office so you can go grow sales? How do you make it so that you’re completely systemized? Right. Like, if you’re not delegating, it’s tough to get that focus. All right, so before you give a bit of a call to action with some questions for some folks at the end of this thing, I just want to summarize quickly, because I think one of the things that is really powerful and what you’ve shared today is this. You’ve, like, codified and simplified the complexities of growing a business.

Robert
44:35
You know, as one person trying to grow a company, you know, what do I do this year, next year? You know, it can be really daunting. It can be overwhelming. But then you look at, you know, these constraints from mindset, time, people, process and tools, and then you take those and prioritize them around the different stages of business. Again, five stages, whether you’re in the field, in the office, focus on sales, focus on letting go or completely systemized. And then in order to be able to do all that letting go and delegating with this acronym, red of responsibility, empowerment, and deadlines. Like, that’s bad ass, dude. Like, you’ve clearly been doing this for some time. I just really appreciate you coming on and sharing this with folks. I think there’s a lot of value there, I think.

Frank
45:22
Well, thank you, first of all. And second, it’s. I think when you break it down, I think one of the best things people can do is just find someone who’s doing something that you would want to be doing. Like, if you see a company that’s really inspiring, whether they have 100 employees and you have one or two, it’s like, it’s incredible how generous people are. And all these things I’m talking about today, all this information has been given to me, half of it probably free, just because people were just so willing to share these secrets along the way and seeking them with this podcast and all the information that you guys provide, I think it’s so helpful. I think it’s just something that people don’t have to overcomplicate things.

Frank
46:08
It’s first, you know, just taking one thing and implementing it at a time. But second is just organizing everything that seems so complex when you have so many problems to deal with or challenges, right?

Robert
46:21
No doubt, man. All right. So you mentioned that you wanted to give some questions to the audience before you let them go. So what do you got?

Frank
46:26
So the self audit, a little exercise. So everyone listening, first of all, really appreciate you being here today, but I want to leave you with a few questions just to think about these five growth constraints and where you fit into the picture. So, first, for the mindset, ask yourself these questions. Do you have a winning mindset? So does your leadership and your mindset match the mindset and leadership you want your employees to have, right. Short term, long term, second time. So are you and your employees maximizing and managing your time efficiently? So look at your day to day. If you’re not getting any phone calls, all the work is getting done and people are providing the paperwork or whatever, how you do it, and everything’s going well, you’re profitable, then chances are it’s not a problem, this one. Right.

Frank
47:18
But if you’re putting out fires every day and you don’t have time to work on your business, chances are you could look at different ways to manage your time and help people manage your time better. Third, people, would you work with? Would you work for yourself? First question. So if you’re a business owner, would you go work for someone exactly like you? And if you. I mean, if everyone around you is smiling, chances are it’s a good sign, right? The second question is, ask yourself. My apologies. Just dropped something here. Do you have the right people in the right positions? I’ll give you an example. I had an employee, had him for eight or nine years. I thought, this person is ready to be a foreman. Right? To move up. Well, the Peter principle, right?

Frank
48:06
Putting someone in a position where it’s to their own demise. He did not want to be a foreman. So for me, he actually quit after eight or nine years. He said, this is not what I wanted to do. So thinking, you know, if people are not happy, first and foremost are in the right position, is there something else that they could be doing better that could be more helpful? Process. So are you being proactive on a daily basis or are you just putting out fires? That would be my main question for process. And then the last one for tools is, do you have a plan for your business growth? And often people will say, yeah, I got a plan. Then I ask them the next question, well, what is the plan? I’ll say, well, I’ll just be profitable and build jobs. No.

Frank
48:55
So, no, I really have a plan. Right. Do you have a sales plan, marketing plan. Do you have a growth plan? And then also, do you know your numbers? To me, that’s the most important question. If you want to be profitable, hey, we’re in business to make a profit so we can grow. So do you know your numbers? And do you know what needs to get done next? Like tomorrow, next week, next month, next year? so that little self audit exercise, if people take it seriously, honestly, you learn a lot about yourself, but you have to be open to knowing that it might not be a pretty picture, but then go get answers to the ones that hurt the most or the most challenging.

Robert
49:38
Well, and, all change starts with consciousness, right? Like, if we don’t know something needs to change, how can we go possibly change it? So anyway, take that little quiz for all the people listening here. Okay, last one before we let you go, resource speaker, author, podcast, something that you’d recommend someone check out to start growing themselves. What would you, what would you say is a good one?

Frank
50:01
Well, I think just because were talking about all these different things, you can do a great podcast. I would check out, I mean, I’m a fan of them, and I keep hearing about different people they’re interviewing would be the synced up podcast just because they’re looking at all different types of companies. And to me, you’re going to learn from the small, large companies can learn the, it can remind them of when they were smaller and like, are they forgetting certain things that are important at a, you know, as a small business, a large business, but they also explore all the business systems that you can implement. So to me, that’s a huge resource. I would say if you’re not part of your landscape association, join. It’s a wealth of resource.

Frank
50:45
And whether you’re in Canada or in the US, I would check out hardscape North America. I’ve learned more there. It’s like 20 acres of equipment outside and 20 acres of exhibits and stuff inside that will help you discover, you know, what’s next for you. And, and you’re gonna meet the best people in the industry. They’re honestly pretty much all there, right?

Robert
51:10
It’s awesome, man. Okay, Frank, I really appreciate you taking the time, man. Thanks for doing this.

Frank
51:17
I appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Robert
51:18
Oh, last one. If anybody wants to get ahold of you, what do they do?

Frank
51:21
Yeah, my website, Frank Bork.com, and Bork is spelled B o u r q u e. They can, my information is there. They can reach out or you can write an [email protected]. And I’m happy to spend 20 minutes with anyone who’s motivated to make good changes in their business. If you don’t have that plan, I’ll help you build those next steps, those next actions for the business. Epic.

Robert
51:46
Okay, thanks for doing this, and thanks everybody for listening. This is just another amazing episode of the I am landscape growth podcast. Thanks, Frank.

Frank
51:53
Thanks so much, Rob. Appreciate it.

Robert
51:56
The I am landscape growth podcast is brought to you by intrigue, where passionate marketing meets predictable results for entrepreneurs. Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss the next episode. And if you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please visit intriguemedia.com and click on podcasts.