Want to Be in the Top 1% of Landscaping Companies? Brian Hamilton Spells It Out

00:00
Rob Murray
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the IM Landscape Growth Podcast. I, typically say that we have this great guest coming on and special guest. I gotta say, Brian, though, you are definitively a unique guest on this show, and we’re really pumped to have you. I got Brian Hamilton from Liveswitch with us today.

00:50
Brian Hamilton
Great to be here. It looks like my weather is better than yours. I see the snow. I don’t know if that’s a virtual background.

00:56
Rob Murray
It’s all perspective. Because if you like snow, this is amazing. And I just happen to be a fan, so I’m pretty happy with what we got.

01:02
Brian Hamilton
Well, you know, I grew up in Connecticut, Rob. It’s great to be here, but I grew up in Connecticut, and I’ve lived in Raleigh, Durham, North Carolina. But I have to say, I still love a snowstorm. When I was a little kid, we’ll talk about how I got into landscaping, but I started with shoveling driveways in the day, so I know something about this whole thing.

01:21
Rob Murray
All right, sweet. Well, I mean, why don’t we just go there quickly so that the audience has some orientation around who they’re listening to? Sure. From the snow shovel to Live Switch and how you made that journey in Cole’s Notes summary because it’s quite the journey.

01:38
Brian Hamilton
Yeah, well, I was hoping you wouldn’t do that, but because it’s a long tail, let me say this. I’ve run small companies, I. E. Me and I run larger companies. E. Sageworks, which I sold in 2018 to the guys at AKKR, was a very successful exit. That was a tech company, and we did a financial analysis. Now, I’ve done a lot in this life of mine, but it all started when I was like 8 or 10 years old, and I wanted to make extra money. You can’t go get a job when you’re 8 or 10. And we didn’t have a lot of money when I was growing up, so I would do snow shoveling and cut lawns, and my old man was, I guess you’d call him, a real True landscaper. And he. He would. I would tag along with him.

02:22
Brian Hamilton
I mean, literally, like when I was 5 and 6 and, you know, I know how to plants and all that. And he would do landscaping on the weekend as extra money. Like, probably a lot of the people, your listeners. Right. That’s how they got into it. And then I. I learned about landscaping from my dad, who used to brag he never lost a tree. And I can’t say the same for me. But by the time I was in high school, I was doing lawn services. And then I got out of. And I’m not. This is. I want to kind of blend it into the audience here. But by the time I got out of college, I was the first person in my family to even go to college. But, you know, I worked for a bank.

03:04
Brian Hamilton
They were going to fire me, probably. I. I’m sure of it. They were going to fire me about nine months in, and I knew I was good. Yeah, yeah, it’s true. I mean, it’s totally true. And by the way, they should have. I was such an arrogant jerk. But anyway, the point. The important point on this is that be. I got. Had to get accepted to graduate school, and I didn’t know exactly where I was going to go. I ended up at Duke, but I thought, hey, instead of them firing me, which stinks, I’m going to quit. Then, I started a landscaping business, which was really a professional one, three years prior to going to business school. And now that’s where, you know, I had a truck and the crew and all that stuff.

03:46
Brian Hamilton
So, you know, I’ve run the whole thing. I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole life, and I’ve loved doing landscaping things because I know something about this market.

03:54
Rob Murray
Cool. And so then, how’d you jump into fintech?

03:57
Brian Hamilton
That’s another good question. So, you’re getting to the roots of my story. So I did the landscape business, and I used that money to pay for graduate school, which in the day was, you know, that was an achievement, really, you know, I did. Oh, yeah. And then, I got out of grad school, and I didn’t have a lot of capital, but I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I knew that. And there’s a whole backstory to that. I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I didn’t have capital. So I looked around at different industries, and I said, hey, Coin Laundromats seem like a business that does well in good times, a business that does well in the bad times, and So I decided, hey, I’m going to open my first Coin Laundromat.

04:40
Brian Hamilton
I have always dreamed, Rob, to do big things like Sageworks. But I really wanted to learn the basics and continue learning them. And I didn’t have capital. Right. And I knew I was a little bit unemployable too, is the truth. So basically, I. I started one Laundromat, and I built it into a chain. I sold that chain, this is in my 20s, and I sold that. And then, I started Sageworks. But the. But the idea of Sageworks was born of all my experience in finance and all my experience at the bank. Basically, I developed an expert system that converted financial statement numbers into plain language for small businesses. So even though it doesn’t seem like it’s related, it kind of is, actually. It was like, hey, let’s take all the balance sheet income statement data and put that into a concise report.

05:31
Brian Hamilton
This technology is used all over the place now. I mean, like, maybe the world, I don’t know where it’s used. I mean, it’s everywhere. But let’s let small businesses understand what’s happening in their business from a financial standpoint and give them suggestions on how they can do better. Because my heart has, and it’s the reason I’m here. I mean, I’d love to promote my new company, Live Switch, and all that, but my heart’s always been helping small businesses. Because, as you know, it’s the backbone of our entire economy.

06:01
Rob Murray
They’re the crazy people who put their houses on the line to hire people in our communities. Yeah.

06:05
Brian Hamilton
Yes. Yeah. You gotta be. You gotta be dumb and insane.

06:09
Rob Murray
Yeah.

06:10
Brian Hamilton
To start a business, you know, it’s crazy. But. But if we can help, and that’s why I’m glad to be here, we can help those people. That’s great.

06:17
Rob Murray
Awesome. So you’re into fintech, and then you exit with Sageworks and then Live Switch. Just give people a quick overview. What’s Live Switch all about?

06:25
Brian Hamilton
So, we own our own video stack. And what we do is develop technology specifically to help small businesses. One of our products, called Contact, is a video product. If you. Let’s say you want your lawn cut, you want something painted, or you want a couple of trees planted. I’m the landscaper. I text you, click on that link, and you show me the work you want done rather than the day. In my day, you’d have to go drive out and do an estimate. Now we have the video, and very importantly, we’ve got A before and after we got that video, which gets stored in our library at Live Switch. So you always have before and after you got documentation, and you can do a virtual estimate and you can also document the work you do. But that’s not that important.

07:09
Brian Hamilton
The important thing for Live Switch is how we tech enable the small business guy. And I’m from the Northeast, so everybody’s a guy. I don’t want to offend. But how do we teach to enable the small business guy to compete with the big businesses? And that’s what my entire career has been. And we’re using video at Live Switch to do that. And I’m excited about it because I know for sure we can help people increase their sales and cut their costs. So that’s my advertisement. That’s me.

07:37
Rob Murray
No, no, that’s. And that’s cool. And if you want to check it out, it’s live switch IO, right?

07:41
Brian Hamilton
Liveswitch.com is where people can get liveswitch.com.

07:46
Rob Murray
All right, so theme of the show, what’s the primary growth constraint holding entrepreneurs back? In this case the green industry?

07:53
Brian Hamilton
Right.

07:54
Rob Murray
What’s, I mean, having experienced it yourself and now trying to enable them with technology so they can, you know.

08:00
Brian Hamilton
Right.

08:00
Rob Murray
Compete with the big guys. What’s your take on what’s holding people back these days?

08:05
Brian Hamilton
Well, okay. And I’ll try to keep it short. It’s knowledge, really. It’s knowledge. It’s not capital. It’s not necessarily hiring good people. However, that’s hard and very hard. As you know, it’s knowledge like so Bill Gates exists, I think, probably. Right. Elon Musk exists. Henry Ford existed. There are entrepreneurs, such as Rob, who can build a huge company. And they’re, they’re not just like small business people. Right. But, it requires an entire tool set in order to build even a mid-sized company. So, in landscaping, that might be like 10 people for me. You know, I don’t know. That’s probably a mid-sized company, right? So if you and I, Rob, go out and we cut lawns, or we plant trees, you and me, just literally you and me, and that’s it. And we got a truck.

08:57
Brian Hamilton
The skill set we need, you know, is hard work and all that and nice, and we need to plant the tree the right way. But we’re okay now if we want to take that business problem, we want to go to 10 employees or 20, or that’s different now we got to Be good at hr, we got to be good at accounting, we got to be good at compliance, we got to be good at customer service. And so, to me, having done it, the largest constraint for us as entrepreneurs is knowledge. How do I become good at a lot of things?

09:26
Rob Murray
So then let’s just say someone’s listening to this and they’re at 10 people and they’re on their way to 50. What, what skill sets or knowledge sets do these folks need to start focusing on to get from 10 to 50? Like, where do you see?

09:42
Brian Hamilton
There’s two. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Great question. There’s two. There’s two. There’s managing people more effectively, which, by the way, even when you’re great at. It’s like being a parent. You’re never good enough. But. But managing people better and being incredible with customers. And if you do those two things and you screw up everything, you will be a bigger, more profitable company. But. But what that requires is a little humility, too. Because most of us think, you know, we’re great at all this stuff. But the truth is, it took years for me to learn that I’m not so good at managing people all the time. I need to be better at it. And you have to be a nut in customer service. Suppose you’re not going to make it. Hey, by the way, just let me say something.

10:26
Brian Hamilton
I feel like I’m part of your fraternity here. Or sorority or whatever it is, right? Let me just say this. Can I just say it, please? If you’re a contractor, will you show up on time? Like, literally, I have a farm out here. I can’t show it to you, Rob. I got these contractors coming. Show up on time. Hey, I listen to Brian on this podcast. Honey, I learned something incredibly top secret. What’d you learn? Show up on time. Like, it’s.

10:54
Rob Murray
It. Well, it’s interesting, though, right? Like, I don’t know if you follow Alex Hermosi at all.

10:59
Brian Hamilton
Nope.

10:59
Rob Murray
Anyway, he lays it out. Pretty simple, really well-communicated, super awesome guy. From zero to 400 million. Legit. Anyway, he just talks about, like, if you show up on time, do what you say you’re gonna do when you say you’re gonna do it, work hard, smile, you’re in the top 10% of business right there.

11:14
Brian Hamilton
I like this guy. Like, literally, I have, like, I went to graduate school and learned funky statistics and quantitative analysis and calculus. I never use this. I love that guy. And I never met him. Perfect. Show up on time. Do what you say you’re going to do. Now we all think we. Here’s the problem, Rob. We all think we do that. But no, that’s not true. Make sure your guys show up like I used to be, clean cut, you know, I’d come with a collared shirt, not like today, and you know, meet with them. I have my khakis, and it was the day when the shirt was tucked in. You know, they don’t do that now, but show up on time, you have a smile, and you like your customers.

11:56
Brian Hamilton
You tell them you’re going to do the work on August 28th, you do the work on August 28th, you plant the tree straight. If you do that, you’re in the top 1%. Very simple.

12:04
Rob Murray
Well, it’s interesting that you said what you said before about the two skill sets, managing people more effectively and being incredible with customers. I’m putting a talk together. So we’re going down to this landscaper event. It’s going to be in Nashville, and we’re doing customer-obsessed sales and marketing. I was looking for some good quotes, and I found this one by Warren Buffett, who said, focus on your customers and lead your people as though their lives depend on your success. And I think that kind of captures what you’re talking about. But I would like to break it down a bit more because managing people more effectively means we could all do that. But what do If I actually want to get good? How do I start making that transition?

13:08
Brian Hamilton
You gotta look in the mirror. The hardest thing is to be an entrepreneur, a husband, a wife, a doctor, a lawyer, and an astronaut. Look in the mirror, and you gotta do a real honest self-assessment. Maybe you have two or three friends. Where am I weak? Like I had to deal with my anger, you know, I get pissed. I mean, I still do, but what would I do when I was? You’re younger than I am. But what I did when I was Younger is. I blame other people. Well, you know, it’s their falling. No, no, you’re being a jerk.

13:49
Brian Hamilton
You have to do a self-assessment of yourself, on what your strengths and weaknesses are, and you need people who you love, you know, to tell you the truth. Like, when you’re an employer, nobody tells you the truth, right? But your brother, your wife. They’ll tell you, hey, you got to work on these three things. So, it all starts with looking inside to see how I can get better. Like I’ll give you a good example. Like customer service. I. My customers love me. Is that true? Is that true? Have you surveyed your customers? Have you asked them at the end of the job, do you give them a survey? Do you listen to them? You say, are.

14:29
Brian Hamilton
Are you happy with the job? Is there anything else I can do? Is that actually true? And. And the. And the more you find weakness in yourself. Now, I’m open. I say this to employees that. Come on, Rob, I manage, like, 5 billion people in my life, right? The kids come in. I’m like, I can’t make you better because you’re not open. Like, I can’t get any more coffee in your cup, man. It’s full. It’s knowledge. You.

14:59
Rob Murray
You think you’re full of arrogance.

15:01
Brian Hamilton
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

15:04
Rob Murray
Or.

15:04
Brian Hamilton
Or, hey, your cup’s full of knowledge. Like, you think you know everything now. So I can’t put any more coffee in there, right? So, it always begins with self-reflection.

15:17
Rob Murray
I love it. So that is one of the things. And I think we’re. If there were, if I had to point to one of the single most impactful methods of my growth, I would do a CEO anonymous feedback survey with our team every six months. And it stings, like, so bad to get all this feedback from people, but what do I don’t do well? What do I do well? What can I do to better? And for, like, two years, you know, four surveys, it was, you’re not approachable, you’re intimidating. And I’m like, oh, man, if they only knew.

15:49
Brian Hamilton
Yeah.

15:50
Rob Murray
So, I started wearing a giant sombrero once a month. I called it my approachability hat.

15:53
Brian Hamilton
That’s funny. That’ll do it, by the way. That’ll do it. That’s good. I like that.

15:59
Rob Murray
It was good. And. But then I got other feedback, and, you know, I don’t listen to all of it. I just look for themes within the feedback that people are giving. But one of them was, you don’t provide context. We don’t know why we’re doing what we’re doing. You just make very smart and make us fast moving changes. And I was like, man, that’s legit.

16:18
Brian Hamilton
Yeah. You know what? You know, the worst part of that one is when it’s true.

16:22
Rob Murray
It was true.

16:23
Brian Hamilton
Think about it. No, no, no, seriously, like inside of everyone who’s even remotely honest, right? You know what your weaknesses are. But then when they’re pointed out, it’s like, oh, that one hurts.

16:35
Rob Murray
Yeah, it stings. Yeah, it stings.

16:37
Brian Hamilton
Yeah.

16:38
Rob Murray
Discomfort creates a lot of growth.

16:39
Brian Hamilton
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, just basic stuff like I, you know, there’s a direct relationship between. You get knowledge, you get age. This is why old people sit on the front porch, and they just tell stories all day long. The more experience you get, the greater. You’re getting more knowledge.

17:32
Brian Hamilton
It is really important. Like, so the things that. Do you see what I’m saying? If you’re sort of honest, you’re like, yeah. Especially as you get experience, you’re like, yeah, I’ve seen a theme here where people are being turned off by me, by certain things, and the pattern emerges. But you have to be honest with yourself, and that’s hard to do.

18:06
Rob Murray
Yeah, well, I mean, if you’re honest, you get conscious. If you get conscious, you can start to change it. Right?

18:10
Brian Hamilton
That’s great.

18:12
Rob Murray
So it was interesting. John Maxwell, have you ever read his stuff? 21 years.

18:17
Brian Hamilton
Yeah, I’ve read a few. Yep. Yep.

18:19
Rob Murray
Yeah. Yeah. So it was, one of them was like the law of the mirror is something like things happen in your organization for one of two reasons. Either you’re settling for it or you’re modeling it.

18:28
Brian Hamilton
Right.

18:29
Rob Murray
And I was like, damn.

18:30
Brian Hamilton
Yeah, that’s true.

18:32
Rob Murray
It’s all my fault.

18:33
Brian Hamilton
Yeah. Well, one of the things, by the way, is that I’ll just. Again, I’m trying to give you guys some quick wins, right? Be very careful about how you refer to your customers and to your employees. Be incredibly careful because some customers, you know, are not always reasonable. But if you communicate your disenchantment with a customer, your employee is going to, they’re going to amplify that. So, I’m always very careful how I refer to my customers in front of my employees. I. You always have regard for them. They’re the people you give your money to, giving you the money, and you have gratitude. You gotta communicate that with your employees. And if you start complaining about your customers, they’re gonna do worse.

19:17
Rob Murray
Yeah, that’s true. I’ve seen that firsthand.

19:19
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

19:20
Rob Murray
What made you bring that up just now, though? That’s a really important piece, I think, for a lot of folks. Cause you’re right. A lot of customers are unreasonable or naive because, you know, you do the thing all the time. They’re only doing it once. And so they ask weird things, they do weird things, and so it’s easy to, you know, and complain about.

19:41
Brian Hamilton
I’ll tell you a story. I’ll tell you a story. 1987, Southport, Connecticut. This lady, I think, Mrs. Grau G R A U. She asked me to move a tree. Like, check this out. Wow. So she wanted me to move a tree. The tree is about 2 feet in diameter; I think it is like an oak tree. And she says, hey, Brian, can you move the tree from there to right over there, like 10ft away? I’m like, I was just thinking to myself, you know, your people listening will find that funny, right? It’s like a two-foot-diameter oak tree. She wants to move it over like 20 yards to the right, you know, whatever, 60 feet to the right. And I’m like, you know, as you know, the tree roots grow as wide as the branches and everything.

20:27
Brian Hamilton
So she still thought it was like a piece of furniture. I’m like, oh my goodness, this person’s never dug a hole, right? And the reason I thought of that is because when that happens inside of your heart, you develop A little bit of maybe scorn or, you know, not dislike or something. Something not positive, like, lady, I can’t move a tree 60ft, it’s going to cost you $10,000. You know, like. But, but the. But you see what I’m trying to say. So you have to check your heart. And I think what happens is we get a little angry, maybe that. Oh, yeah, there are people in the world who don’t know how to move a tree.

21:02
Rob Murray
Right. And really, what’s there to be angry about when it comes to people who don’t know?

21:06
Brian Hamilton
They just don’t know. Yeah.

21:08
Rob Murray
So on this getting self aware, looking in the mirror theme, is there any, like, assessments you’ve ever done that you think are worthwhile? Like, is there something that someone can go check out that they might be able to put some tangible action towards?

21:21
Brian Hamilton
It’s a great question. I, I’ve always been a believer in doing what you did, which was like blind surveys and getting feedback and interviewing employees and that kind of stuff. Like, what can I do better? How can I get better? Oh, no, you’re perfect. You’re perfect. Like, well, nobody’s perfect. If you had to come up with something, what would it be? Now you do.

21:42
Rob Murray
Best question.

21:43
Brian Hamilton
Yeah.

21:43
Rob Murray
If you had to say one thing.

21:45
Brian Hamilton
Yes. What would it be? And if you.

21:47
Rob Murray
And Rob, you know, some truth to it.

21:50
Brian Hamilton
Yes. And Rob, you know, if you did that to five or ten people, you would, you’d know what you need to improve. However, you have to get feedback from the customer and your employees, whether you hate them or not, on certain days. And I, you know, we all, you know, I’m goofing around. Right. But inside of our hearts, like, you know, you really gotta want to serve the people who are working with you, and they know the difference. So I had to get better at that. I think I’m better. I’m not as good as I want to be, but I’m a little better than I used to be.

22:20
Rob Murray
Well, I mean, the destination is the journey, right? So we’re always working on it.

22:25
Brian Hamilton
Yeah.

22:25
Rob Murray
So, okay, well, let’s shift gears into being credible with customers. Right. If you’re, we’re talking about this idea of, you know, upskilling or finding that knowledge to figure out, well, a, we gotta better managing people, but then b, we gotta be incredible with customers. What does that mean to you?

22:42
Brian Hamilton
Well, again, it goes back to what you said, doing what you say you’re gonna do. And, just one quick story here. I was my buddy from high school, and we got together twice a year, but I wasn’t a good student in high school. I didn’t care. I was a football player. I. My trade was football. I was not in school. And we’re all sitting around a living room up the beach a couple of years ago, and these guys are all now, you know, 55 years old or whatever. And I said I was. I was a complete goof-off in high school, which is totally true. And my friend Bob said, yeah, you were, but you took a few things seriously. And I said, really? I don’t remember that. And he goes, well, I work for you doing landscaping. Don’t you remember that?

23:25
Brian Hamilton
I’m like, I didn’t remember it. And one day, we’re cutting a lawn, and you do the trimming with the weed whack or whatever they call it, and you walk around to the back of the lawn. You noticed that. That I had. That I had not, you know, weed whacked the, you know, the grass or whatever. And. And then you said to me, hey, go do the trimming. You know, you got to do the trimming. And then my friend said to me, apparently I don’t remember this, said, well, the customer is not going to see that. I said I don’t give a. If the customer doesn’t see it. We know. We know whether we do good work. I almost don’t even care if the customer; I mean, I personally want to do well. And apparently, I said that. I don’t remember this story.

24:10
Brian Hamilton
I don’t know if he was just being nice, but you have to have that internal compass to serve people. I mean, if you don’t have it, don’t be an entrepreneur.

24:17
Rob Murray
Well, yeah, and life’s too short to burn bridges. Like, you can’t really get by for too long without not having a work ethic like that. And the most successful ones do. Right? So you talk about being incredible with customers. One thing is doing what you say you’re going to do when you say you do it. But I want to get a little bit deeper into this, okay, because. One of the things you also said was don’t communicate disenchantment about customers to your staff.

24:43
Brian Hamilton
Right.

24:44
Rob Murray
I mean, that’s that. I think that’s probably one of the single most important things a leader could ever do inside an organization to set the culture and tone towards the absolute service of customers. Yes, but why do you, like, why is that so important? Why isn’t it enough to just do the job you get paid to do?

25:00
Brian Hamilton
Where does the money come from? This is what I get. I’m in debates with you, by the way. We’ve got great staff and great people here. We really do. Actually, I’ve built a couple of really incredible companies, and this is one of them. But people are people, you know, like, they’re dealing with these customers all the time. So remember, I’m just going back to it. I’m trying to, you know, answer this question very directly. Whatever you say that’s negative or slightly negative about a customer, you’re. The person working for you is going to amplify that. So you will never hear me blaming a customer, much to the annoyance of everybody who’s ever worked with me. So we’re. Here’s the thing. Who’s paying the bills? Let’s be simple. You know, really. We go to school. You probably went to college. We get confused in college.

25:52
Brian Hamilton
You know what I mean? We all get confused if it’s so simple. Who has the money? The customer has the money. Like, not us. There’s not. This is really interesting. Sometimes, employees think there’s a big vault back there in the back of your house, Rob, and you go get the money and pay the money from some big vault that you got the money from your uncle. Then, the money comes from the customer. Therefore, all the values are with the customer. And so you got two choices. You can talk to the customer and do the work reluctantly, or you can embrace that dynamic. And I’m a big advocate for the customer. I’m an advocate for the customers in my company. By the way, one thing I’m going to controversial because your people listen to this. Be like, oh, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

26:43
Brian Hamilton
Because that’s what my people say to me is, well, the customer’s not always right. I’m like, nope, wrong again. Did the customer force you to do work for them right at gunpoint? Did they force you into that relationship? Nope. Consequently, yes, the customer’s always right. While you’re in the relationship, they’re always right. So even when they’re wrong, they’re right because. Because the customer didn’t force you to get into that relationship.

27:18
Rob Murray
So you agreed to do it.

27:19
Brian Hamilton
You agreed to be in a relationship. Now, you don’t have to continue that relationship, but while you’re in it, shut up. Do the work and honor the customer.

27:30
Rob Murray
Yeah. And if, and I think, you know, some people that might hear that might not also think about. You can learn what went wrong and then put guardrails up for your Next. Customer interaction.

27:40
Brian Hamilton
That’s correct. Yeah.

27:41
Rob Murray
So, if anything, the wrong customer was helping you get better with your expectation setting.

27:46
Brian Hamilton
Yes, that’s right.

27:48
Rob Murray
That’s cool. Perspective.

27:49
Brian Hamilton
That’s well said. I mean, I have nothing to add to that. It’s beautiful. Yeah.

27:52
Rob Murray
Well, and I think the. And you know, you’re like, let’s just get simple here. The whole organization is built to serve the customer.

27:59
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

28:00
Rob Murray
That is the existence of the company.

28:02
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

28:03
Rob Murray
And so, too.

28:04
Brian Hamilton
Who’s giving the money, and who’s getting the money?

28:07
Rob Murray
Yeah.

28:07
Brian Hamilton
Who’s giving the money? Who’s getting the money? The customer is giving us the money. We’re getting the money. We, you know, we got to know our role.

28:15
Rob Murray
Yes.

28:16
Brian Hamilton
It’s very simple. I mean, it is beautiful. We complicated. It’s amazing. Like, I went to business school. I shouldn’t say this because they’re gonna hate me over there. They even promote me. I’m on their, like, most notable alumni thing or whatever. It’s kind of funny, but I have never gone to business school.

28:33
Rob Murray
Because the program was shit. No, I’m just joking.

28:35
Brian Hamilton
Yeah, I know. I. I can’t say that. Right.

28:38
Rob Murray
I can say.

28:39
Brian Hamilton
But really, I’m like a most notable alumni of stuff. And, you know, it’s not Duke. It’s a pretty good school. And, And. But they. They. They taught me everything. I learned everything except for two things. They. They never forgot to take a course in customer service or sales.

28:59
Rob Murray
Sales.

29:00
Brian Hamilton
I learned everything else. If, by the way, you want calculus done and regression analysis and spreadsheets, I’m your man. But we got everything except for those two. So, you know, and that’s the job of. You guys are doing podcasts is just. Hey, it’s like going to church, man. Why am I going to this? I’m Catholic. I can’t stand the Mass, but I go because that priest will say things once in a while. Oh, wow. I never thought about that. You know what I mean? So, or I thought about it, and I need to be reminded of it, right?

29:31
Rob Murray
Yeah, no, that’s cool. And like. Well, it’s interesting because, I mean, I didn’t graduate from college or whatever, but I did go for hospitality and tourism management, and I did get formally trained in customer service and worked at Four Seasons, which was an incredible experience, and I had no idea that it was going to parlay into what we do today. But one of the things, you know, we really try to focus on more than anybody is the fact that we’re customer service oriented. Like, There are a lot of customers that are difficult, and if you know how to handle difficult situations, it actually becomes quite simple.

30:03
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

30:04
Rob Murray
As long as you don’t get emotionally triggered.

30:06
Brian Hamilton
Yeah.

30:06
Rob Murray
One of the things I’d love to get your take on is that self-awareness as a leader is a big deal. Emotional triggers are a big part of self-awareness. Like, what gets you pissed off? What are you afraid of that makes you angry? But then, working with a team of people to help them find that stuff out. We talk about IR theory, so identity and role, and when we talk about training, in most cases, the vast majority of our team members and others focus on role training, skill development, and role training. However, few organizations are focused on building the person or their identity. Do you have any experience helping people figure out their eyes?

30:41
Brian Hamilton
That’s very insightful, by the way. So, yeah, I mean, I’m always. Well, you know, I don’t know how to answer that. That’s a very insightful question. I need to think about it, but let me not answer it. Like, if you’re working with me, I always. Do I want to make you a better person? Yeah. Do I want to make you a better person to make my company better? Yes. Do I want to make it? Do I want to help you become a better person because you’re a human being? And I’m like, yes, that’s all. Yes, I want my company to be better. But here’s the magic rule. You know, I played football. That was my trade, 8 to 18. My trade was football. I didn’t care about anything else. And, you always know what. What?

31:31
Brian Hamilton
You always know whether the coach cares about you. So, rule number one when working with employees is that if you don’t care about them personally, you’re never going to be effective with them. You can get away with anything. You could just like being a parent, you could yell at them and do this and that, whatever. But if you don’t care about them and you don’t have them in regard in your heart, you’ll never lead anybody. You’re not fit for leadership. Give you an example. And I’m worried about this example, but I don’t. So, I’m not going to mention names. When I was a kid, there was a guy, David Funk, who died at 25 of a brain tumor. He was, and he was never near to doing well. He was always messing up and getting suspended from school. And David and I were very close.

32:13
Brian Hamilton
He was about 100 yards from me when coming up as a big, super big guy. I Played football with him, but I always got in trouble. You know what I mean? Just always getting in trouble and fights and whatever. And my coach drove me home one day to my house, and David lived near me, right? Think about this, Rob. Think about this. Check this out, right? So my coach drove me home and drove by David Funk’s house. David’s outside now. My coach was coaching me and David Funk. And the coach drove by. David Funk looked out his window and said there was a future garbage man. And I never forgot that I was 16 years old. It actually makes me emotional, honestly. David died. David got his whole life straightened out; Rob, before he died, got engaged and then died a year later. It’s just. I.

33:12
Brian Hamilton
I don’t know why. So this happens sometimes, but anyway. But the coach was referring to David in the car while I was driving myself home. There goes a future garbage man. And I never forgot that. Because that coach is never going to win because he thinks his players don’t know how he thinks about the players.

33:34
Rob Murray
Yeah.

33:35
Brian Hamilton
And we’re smart. Everybody down deep knows you, Rob; you can’t fake. Rob, I’m 61. Very soon to be 62. You can’t fake whether you care about people. You think you can, but they know down deep. So I’m sorry. Long answer, but no, it’s a good one, man. Yeah. You have to care about people. So, with regard to the term you used or whatever, I. I think I know what you’re talking about. We have to care about the people. How am I going to help you get better? How are you going to help me get better? That’s how we build great organizations.

34:11
Rob Murray
Yeah, that’s cool. And. And the thing is, if you build a happy, healthy human, they’re. They’re better. Like, yes. Whatever they’re doing, they’re better. And I think it’s also something to be said about when you have to let people go. For example, if you’re always trying to help somebody be happy and healthy, right? Then. Then, whether they stay in your organization or not has nothing to do with it because you’re just trying to figure out what’s best for them. I think that goes a long way.

34:33
Brian Hamilton
Service, you know, service. Service. Yeah, absolutely.

34:37
Rob Murray
Why we’re here, right?

34:38
Brian Hamilton
And we don’t need it. You know, we don’t, actually. I’d say, you know, having been around the block a little bit, I’d say you’re at a disadvantage if you go to college. I mean, I. I’m. I’m really getting that way. I’m like. Because in college, again, We. We complicate things, and we lose the things that we know from when we were very young. When we’re children. So, yeah, it’s service, you know, and people know. They really do.

35:01
Rob Murray
So, you know, we’re kind of coming up to it, but. Okay, one last question for you. How big does an organization get to you? You are not connected until you’re not connected to everybody as a leader and entrepreneur.

35:12
Brian Hamilton
Wow. I’ve never been asked that. I’ve never been asked that. I think until you get to be about 200 people, you should. You need to know everyone in your company. And. And let’s be honest: I love landscapers. I miss it sometimes. Honestly, I used to be able to work all day and then eat whatever I wanted because I was burning calories. I love the landscape. I love landscaping. We’re working with our hands, Right. Not many landscaping firms have 200 employees, so. So really, you should know all your people. Definitely. Pretty well, actually. Yeah.

35:48
Rob Murray
Yeah. And spend all your time with them.

35:51
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

35:51
Rob Murray
An idea that hit me a while ago was that my customers are my team.

35:55
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

35:56
Rob Murray
And then the company’s customers are the team’s customers.

35:58
Brian Hamilton
Really? Absolutely. Yeah.

36:00
Rob Murray
Okay. What’s a. An author speaker resource that you. That kind of hits you with some. Aha. Moments you’d want to share with folks.

36:07
Brian Hamilton
There’s two. You know, it’s funny I get asked this, but so. But there are. There are two. I’ve read a thousand books on being successful, having big muscles, and all this other stuff. There are two books, how to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. Changed me.

36:22
Rob Murray
Classic. Yeah.

36:23
Brian Hamilton
Yep. That changed me. I don’t like the title of that because it sounds manipulative, but it’s really about service to other people. And the second one is Thinking to Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Think and Grow Rich changed me. I read that when I was about 13. It totally changed me. It’s the power of your mind. And, boy, I. And by the way, they’re both short reads. They’re great reads.

36:46
Rob Murray
Yeah. And I mean, the power of the unconscious, right?

36:49
Brian Hamilton
Yes.

36:49
Rob Murray
Subconscious.

36:50
Brian Hamilton
The way you think about life, the way you think about money. And. Yeah. Really powerful. Yep.

36:58
Rob Murray
If someone wants to reach out, get a hold of Brian Hamilton. How do they do that?

37:03
Brian Hamilton
I’m easy to find. It’s actually Brian B R I at [email protected]. I have a foundation. So B R I A N H A M I l t o-n.org, and you can reach out to me. And, of course, you know, if you’re a landscaper at Live Switch, we would love your business. I just went to liveswitch.com, and I really enjoyed it. I, you know, maybe I’ll come. I don’t know if you’re running a company or not. I’ve come and worked for one of you guys. I need the exercise.

37:33
Rob Murray
Well, wait, but before we go, quick, you know, one minute. Spotlight on the foundation.

37:38
Brian Hamilton
Yeah. Basically, Brian Hamilton Foundation. Brian Hamilton.org is dedicated to helping people start businesses and thrive in business. It’s all about entrepreneurship, where we lead. I’ll keep it very short. We have all this problem with wealth inequality, right? And what do we get to do, and what are we going to do? We have minimum payments to people. No, no, we need to make people entrepreneurs. We need to make them owners of businesses. That’s the way we get people out of poverty. So that’s been my beacon for a long time.

38:11
Rob Murray
That’s cool. I go out to another podcast because, I mean, that’s a big part of my story.

38:16
Brian Hamilton
Yeah, that’s great, man. Awesome.

38:18
Rob Murray
Yeah, thanks for doing this. Thanks for listening, everybody.

38:21
Brian Hamilton
Thanks, Rob.