The Art of Growing: Jacki Hart’s Lessons on Building a Landscape Business

Robert
0:00
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of our wonderful podcast. I am landscape growth today. I have the honor and privilege of bringing Chris Shear from Father Nature Tacoma on the show. Thank you, Chris, for doing this.

Chris
00:23
You’re welcome, Rob. It’s my pleasure.

Robert
00:25
We’ve had the opportunity work with Chris over the last, whatever, maybe 1314 months. It’s been an absolute joy. So maybe for the sake of the audience, you can give people a bit of a rundown of kind of what you’re up today and like, kind of how you got there, where you came from to get you to the role you’re in right now.

Chris
00:43
Okay, man, that’s kind of long winded, so feel free to cut me off.

Robert
00:48
No, we got a bit of time. Context is key, right, for these folks?

Chris
00:52
Yeah. So I am not the majority owner of Father nature landscapes Tacoma. I have a business partner, his name’s Andrew. And I was getting my degree at the University of Washington back in 2006. And I met Andrew at an event at church. It was called men’s Life. And we got paired up in this big group of about ten guys. And as men often do, you’re kind of going around feeling each other out and like, well, what do you do? What do you do? Andrew mentioned what he did. He owned a landscape business. He had just started it in Tacoma. He’d moved from Birmingham, and he and I immediately connected. And I was able to get his information, like his phone number, and then just told him, hey, man, I’m always looking for part time work.

Chris
01:41
Would you have any interest in letting me come on and help your crew or something? And he said yes. And so I was able to join. I think it was his first project he sold. And I met up there one day and he put me to work. And I mean, I started the bottom. So I was a laborer on the crew part time while I was getting my degree. And then as things progressed over the course of about two years, I kind of worked my way through the ranks, so to speak. At one point he found out I liked and had an interesting carpentry. And so then I started doing wood projects for us. Like small decks and pergolas, gazebos, that type of thing. Yeah, exactly. And then as I finished my degree, which was in accounting, I also helped him with the book.

Chris
02:38
So I ran payroll and I kind of became an office person, especially as I got an internship, which was taking more of my time. I really couldn’t make it work well to be out in the field and then also go to classes and do his books. So that’s kind of how I progressed through the landscaping business. And then for about ten months, I took a job in accounting, and he was still running father nature, and I sucked. I was a terrible accountant. I really. I liked the people that I was in office with. But the grind of sitting at a desk in a cubicle, which it literally was for me, on this huge floor, I had no interactions with clients. I had very little interactions with other staff.

Chris
03:31
I was just given numbers to kind of crunch through on spreadsheets and do tax returns.

Robert
03:37
It really sounds amazing.

Chris
03:40
God bless accountants, Rob. But I wanted to throw myself off the 6th floor most days and just end it all. And anyway, I joke all the time. The managing partner brought me in one day and sat me down across the big desk from him, said, chris, we got a chat, and I felt I knew what was coming. And he just said, look, you’re not very good at this.

Robert
04:08
You’re like, I know.

Chris
04:10
And he’s like, I believe we could put you on a plan of improvement. I’m sure you would show improvement. But I gotta ask you, is this really what you wanna do for your, is this what you wanna do for the next 30 years? And I had this moment of, like, good cop, bad cop, the devil on my shoulder, all that. And the words just tumbled out immediately. And I said, no, I really don’t like it. And Bob was his name, and he was so gracious. He said, look, here’s what I’m gonna do for you. I’m gonna pay you two months severance. Go to your desk right now, write a letter of resignation, take it to HR. You can clean your desk out as fast or slow as you want, and this will be your last day. And I was like.

Chris
04:46
I stood up, shook his hand. There was no hard feelings. I went to my desk, I did that. I left. And before I called my wife, who was pregnant with our first child, to tell her I had a job, I called Andrew. And this was.

Robert
05:01
I gotta get my shit covered before I got my wife.

Chris
05:04
This was like, Friday at two in the afternoon or something. And I said, hey, andrew, I. I can be back to work on Monday. I really want to make a go of this with you. And he was like, oh, heck yeah, man. Let’s hit it.

Robert
05:17
Alabama, baby.

Chris
05:18
Let’s go. Roll time. And so I got back with him on Monday and got to work, and then he and his wife had their first daughter later that year, and in doing so, they realized they didn’t want to be the 22,000 ish miles from home. So they decided to move back to Birmingham. And in doing that, Andrew said, why don’t you take over the business and I’ll give you an equity ladder and you’ll earn up to this percentage of the business, and it’ll take this long, and what do you think? And I said, yes. And so that’s how I became an owner and father Nature. And it’s good and bad in that I’ve done everything in this business and help grow it. From when I took over in 2009, were grossing about 280,000.

Chris
06:10
And so in being that small, it was me and a three man crew. I mean, I sold the work, I managed the work, invoiced the work, collected receivables, ran payroll. I was the receptionist. I did all purchasing. Yeah, I did clean the toilet, all that kind of stuff, the janitor. And I’ve been blessed in that. I’ve realized along the way I have some skills, but I was never a trained landscape professional. I don’t have a horticulture degree or a design. And so I paired myself as I found people who were really good, whether it was a sub or not, I really glommed onto them and just told them the truth and said, this is not my area of expertise, it’s yours. But I’d like to leverage your talents for the better of my customers and my business. And they all agreed.

Chris
06:55
And in doing that, more and more people began to join father nature, and we started growing, and we’ve been able to get it up to, I think we’re just shy of 30 people right now, and it’s been a heck of a ride, and I have quite a few plans for it to keep going. So it’s been fantastic.

Robert
07:15
I love it, and thank you so much for giving the context. Right. I think there’s a lot too for people that are starting out their careers, you don’t have to know exactly what you want. You just got to go start trying stuff out, even if you hate it. And then you find the contrast that leads you in the right direction. So I think that’s a really cool story on a lot of levels, Chris. So thanks for sharing. So one of the things I wanted.

Chris
07:35
To ask you about.

Robert
07:36
So, first and foremost, the podcast is designed to help landscape entrepreneurs grow faster, better, stronger, and in doing so, working with folks like you and the best in the business, understanding what the constraints are to growth in the industry. And so, you know, quick summary. What’s the focus of father nature in terms of a landscape business?

Chris
07:55
Our goal is to connect life and land. And that might sound pokey, but we want people, our clients, to utilize these spaces we’re building for them and to create memories with their family and friends and sometimes coworkers and get out and live outside.

Robert
08:12
That’s awesome. And purpose driven business. Nonetheless, focus on residential, mostly design, build and creating these epic spaces. And I think in one of the pieces too, we talked about how you really love to focus on creating outdoor experiences that engage the five senses and, you know, really, you know, stop the epidemic of kids glued to screens. You know, I don’t think that’s exactly what you say, but it’s pretty much the essence of how you guys work.

Chris
08:34
I would agree 100%, which is amazing.

Robert
08:37
From our perspective, because it helps us distinguish you from somebody else.

Chris
08:41
Yeah, we’re, we’re not the company you call if you just want a driveway or a backyard patio, and that’s it. We’re, to your point, more the company you call if you’re looking to have different areas of your backyard that serve different purposes, and you want to get, you know, 2030 people in the space on a regular basis, and you want to cook out there and you want a congregating area around a fire pit, and, you know, you want to have the water feature rolling in the background and create the soft breakup of all the sound from the neighborhood and things like that. That’s really what we do.

Robert
09:12
Yeah, it’s amazing, man. And so when it comes to what’s holding people back right now, like, where do you see growth constraints in the.

Chris
09:24
Industry currently in our business? It’s probably me. A willingness to like, we grew in kind of the high of the pandemic. I think I was just shy of 50 employees total. So we like, you know, it’s 20 moreish than what we have right now. In running my numbers, I gotta be honest with the audience. I was always really good at building landscapes and working with people. I have not always been diligent about running the business by the numbers and actually diving deep into them and understanding what’s my gross margin, what’s my net, what’s our cash flow position and different ratios. And we have really, in the last about two, three years, kind of try and job costing one too. Looking at running the business as an actual business and not afraid to make a profit.

Chris
10:19
And if my employees and staff or clients don’t like that, then they’re not a good fit for us because we need to make some money. At the end of the day, the stuff we do is too risky. And too darn cool for this business to not make a decent margin and be able to give something back.

Robert
10:37
Yeah, it’s awesome. So first and foremost, very few leaders have the wherewithal to look inward as the major growth constraint. I think you nailed it on the head. As leaders, we’re the ones that set the pace for an organization or bottleneck it. I just think, you know, I really appreciate your perspective there and I think a lot of people, you know, that might resonate, but maybe you can just walk us through that transition from, you know, a business like a love affair, if you will, of making awesome stuff for really cool people, working with great staff, to making an operational organization that’s designed to not only do that great work for great people with awesome staff, but to also turn a profit, you know, what did that transition look like? And, you know, what are some of the lessons you learned?

Chris
11:28
Yeah, that’s an easier. I’ve got Andrew, my business partner who runs Father Nature Birmingham in my year and for years, like, he is the one who found LMN, I don’t know, eight years ago or something. Had it for about a year before we adopted it here in Tacoma. Before that were just doing like square foot pricing through Quickbooks. Right. Having no. No idea if I was going to make a profit on a job because I never planned for it. Didn’t know if I was recovering overhead because I didn’t plan.

Robert
11:58
Weren’t even thinking about it.

Chris
12:00
No, it was just like, I don’t know, how about $20 a foot? And we ran some numbers, but you know, like, it just made no sense.

Robert
12:07
It’s a thousand square feet. $20,000, let’s go.

Chris
12:09
That’s it. Let’s do it. How long is that going to take?

Robert
12:12
I don’t know.

Chris
12:12
That usually takes about a week and a half. And so many people.

Robert
12:16
Do you need, I don’t know, three, five, six, whatever.

Chris
12:19
That’s right. And now with the utilization of LMN, it breaks down. We do our man hours, we know what equipment’s going, what materials, and so it’s easier to schedule the projects. There’s an accountability to it as well because we just post the hours and we talk about it constantly around here. And our job.

Robert
12:40
You’re kind of raising the acumen too, like the business acumen of everybody in the organization.

Chris
12:44
Yeah, trying really hard. And that’s been. It’s been a bit of an uphill challenge because I have some staff that’s been here with me. I have. My brother has been with the business since 2008.

Robert
12:58
Right.

Chris
12:59
And then I’ve got a couple other guys that have been here over ten years, and they’re real leaders, but they still remember kind of the run and gun, how we did it. And so there’s, they’re the ones I had to really focus on and work on. Hey, you guys have to understand these man hours and how this works and translates into the completion of the job so that you can help be my leaders to all the rest of the staff so they understand why it’s important and how we’re going to measure success around here.

Robert
13:25
Okay, so then, yeah, walk us through that. I hear this a lot from entrepreneurs, you know, all sorts of businesses, but legacy staff, good human beings, helped grow the company, may be tied to the way we used to do things. Now we’re moving in a new direction, and we got to bring them along the way, you know? Is there any lessons you’ve learned in, like, how to approach those folks or any mistakes you’ve made that you wouldn’t do again or something that worked really well?

Chris
13:51
That’s a great question. I am a person who’s very comfortable with change, and it doesn’t disrupt me. In fact, I like it.

Robert
13:59
You almost embrace it.

Chris
14:00
Yes. And I think that’s part of being the entrepreneur and the leader and the grower of the business. I’m willing to try something, run the numbers, realize not that it didn’t work and completely throw it away and start fresh. And I’ve realized, especially as I had one designer leave a few years ago, she said, the change in this building is too constant. It’s all the time. And there’s not a consistency going on. And I really, her name is Laureen. I really took to heart what she had to say and said, man, we have to do analyze things and make changes once or twice a year. We can’t be flipping the script every month.

Robert
14:36
Go to a, go to a conference, come back, we’re changing everything.

Chris
14:39
That’s it. You know, like, hey, there’s a better mouse trap out there. We’re going to take it and do it. And I realized unless were going to go under because we’re doing something which were never in jeopardy of, we have to be slower and more thoughtful on how we roll out change and then explain it and get the buy in first.

Robert
14:57
Oh, dude. Yes.

Chris
14:58
And almost like, beta test it behind the scenes and then let people know, hey, I have been doing this, and it’s working on this crew because we run three install crews and one carpentry crew, and then one, maintenance. And so I’ve had the ability to kind of try some new things silently one of those groups and then be able to convey to everybody else, like, this group is now hitting hours and doing this. Here’s how we’re going to do things moving forward, and the why behind it, I think is important. Not just the go, do it’s the reason why we’re going to do it well.

Robert
15:30
And, I mean, I think you just touched on some, like, really key points there that I want to just kind of highlight quickly. One is there’s that saying, right? If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

Chris
15:41
Yeah.

Robert
15:42
So you know that. And I, you know, I heard this for years, you know, slow down to speed up.

Chris
15:47
Yep.

Robert
15:48
And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? I’m trying to do shit. How am I supposed to slow down? Yeah, but I think you captured it really well in that, like, okay, I’m going to figure out what we need to do and why. I’m going to go find some folks that’ll help me test it and figure out how. Then I’m going to figure out if it worked. And then once I’ve got that figured out, I’m going to communicate why it matters to everybody and how we’re going to go. Moving forward like that takes time to slow down to get everybody to move together faster.

Chris
16:16
It does. And I know for our staff, we employ a very high hispanic contingent. It’s probably 80, 90% of my field staff is hispanic. And there does need to be a level of how this is going to benefit them. And sometimes that’s monetarily. Other times it’s researching different equipment that’s going to make it easier on them and less physically exhausting because this is a very hard industry.

Robert
16:43
No doubt. It is hard work.

Chris
16:45
It is taxing on you. You’re in the sun, you’re in the rain, you’re in the cold. Whatever, we’re out there doing it. And so we have to help them understand why we’re going to do it and make this change and how it’s.

Robert
16:56
Going to start to help them to espanolas de bueno. Nice. Okay, so actually, can you just touch on that quickly, though? You know, a lot of folks are working with hispanic workforces, and maybe the leaders don’t have Spanish as a first language. You know, there’s obviously cultural differences. There’s cultural differences from the east coast, the west coast states, let alone different countries. Anything you’ve learned over the years that’s, like, helped you really kind of bridge that gap.

Chris
17:23
Yeah, I show a lot of interest. I would also say I went on almost a half dozen mission trips a long time ago to Mexico. And really, it sounds corny, but fell in love with the culture. And then when I got married, my wife and I took our honeymoon and our five year anniversary down to Mexico. So it’s a place I really enjoy. It’s being in Washington. It’s not that far or hard to get down there. Yeah. And so when I’m working with these guys, even if my espanol is Basura and their english is Basura, if I ask a lot of questions, I’ll pick up, like, a shovel in the. In the. In days past. And I would say, like, almost say, they say, how do you say this? And they look at you like, are you for real? My.

Chris
18:13
My three year old knows how to.

Robert
18:14
Say that, but help me out.

Chris
18:16
Help me out, guys. And they tell me, and I really work hard. I either write it down or I try to, like, make a mnemonic memory type thing, and I’ll remember it, and then I’ll use the name next time. And they start to see, like, man, Chris asks, and then he starts to use our language. And it’s not just English. It’s not like, hey, this is America. Learn. Learn English. I try really hard at that. And that has, I think, helped me a lot with these guys, to help them see me not just as the owner and the boss, but a guy that’s trying to learn their stuff and.

Robert
18:46
And means, that’s cool, man. Showing interest. I love that. All right, so tell us a bit. I mean, when we talked a bit when were prepping about this, you know, were talking about growth. And, you know, one of the constraints which you’ve, you know, with the humility of Chris here mentioned that is the leader, but also, you mentioned finding the right customers has been a big part of the success. Can you just talk a little bit about, like, what you guys have done to find the right customer?

Chris
19:11
Well, we hired you.

Robert
19:13
Thank you very much, and I appreciate that.

Chris
19:15
So that was a start. But we’ve seen for a while now the scope of our project over even the last five years has started to grow. And what I mean by that is there was a time, like, when I took over back in zero nine. We were the people that would put in a front entryway and a couple plants and a little bit of drainage and some grass and get out of there, and it was like, two days.

Robert
19:41
Bam, bam, thank you. You’re done.

Chris
19:43
That’s it. And then clients started seeing what we could do, and they would typically, then they’ll start to say, well, can you come look at this area of my yard? Or I was thinking about a roof structure to cover my deck. Is that something you do? Or, hey, I mentioned the deck. Do you guys build decks? And it kind of started to snowball. And I really enjoy construction lot. I read a lot of trade magazines, from decking to hardscape to house building, all kinds of stuff. I just love learning tricks and new techniques. And in doing that, I wasn’t afraid to take things on and say, yes, we can do that. Whether that was through a subcontractor or me spending some time in a how to build it type book. Yeah. And then going out doing it.

Chris
20:31
And as we’ve done that, we’ve seen our projects go from like ten, $20,000 average budgets to well over $100,000. And that has become very common for us to have six figure jobs. And, I mean, when I remember my first large job back in 2010 was, I think, 62,000. And I could not believe this man said yes to doing this landscape and spending that kind of money on a landscape. And how those checks come in, those are progress payments for us sometimes. And it’s just the scale has changed, you know, and the clients expectations have grown as well because they’re expecting us to be the experts. You know, when you think about it, we need to be slope experts, drainage experts. Oh, you name it’s all over.

Robert
21:27
Material experts.

Chris
21:29
Yeah. And that’s what they expect of us. And we’re pretty darn good at that at this point, knowing how to bring it all together.

Robert
21:35
So then what do you say to the people? Because one of the things we’re talking about on stage all across Canada and the United States, to landscapers across the industry, is we got us, we gotta level up where your customer, we’ve got to go after the higher level, higher value customer. And the reason we believe really strongly is that because they’re not impacted by interest rates, they don’t really care about inflation. They want epic shit to do, epic.

Chris
21:57
Shit with, and they have the money.

Robert
21:59
For it, period, 100%. So if we need to, you know, leverage the level of client we’re going after. But then as an entrepreneur, I’m like, I don’t know how to do that.

Chris
22:12
Yeah.

Robert
22:13
And then there’s like this imposter syndrome that kind of gets in people’s heads and they go, you know, you make it. So just. Can you talk a little bit about, like, how to help someone get through that block?

Chris
22:26
Yeah, we’ve tried a few things. Like there was a period of a year or two where we used to charge for us to come out and estimate your project. And that kind of helped to qualify potential clients because if they weren’t willing to pay the fee, whether it was $10 or $50, they just went away and we didn’t worry about it. And we have continued to evolve and now we look at it as we’re not out there to estimate, we’re out there to consult with clients. And I think our marketing and our branding has really moved more towards that. And then a business like yours that has helped us create these landing pages and things that the prospective client has to research and fill out.

Chris
23:08
We asked some of the more difficult questions from the very first phone call, like, well, what, Rob, what is your budget? Chris? I don’t know. I don’t even know what this stuff costs. Okay, well, Rob, what if I told you most of our clients spend at least $70,000 on a landscape? Holy. People spend that? No, no, I have like 4000. Because they’ll eventually, they’ll tell you some number.

Robert
23:35
There is a number.

Chris
23:36
There isn’t. They have. Everyone does. I’ve done projects around my house. I’m hoping the window project I’m getting the bid on is going to be under 10,000 or the roof that I need is going to be under 30. I know a number. And so we’ve worked hard at just getting those numbers out. And when they don’t align, we tell the client we helped educate them and explain why the $4,000 is not merely enough for the patio, the roof, the deck and the outer kitchen that they wanted. Not even one of those components is only $4,000. And so after we’ve explained a few things to them, if. If that number hasn’t jumped significantly, like to $40,000 or something, then we just tell them politely, we’re not the company for them and we don’t feel bad about it. They might ask for a referral.

Chris
24:25
We often don’t have great. That’s not true. Sometimes we have referrals, but I’m not in the business of referring.

Robert
24:32
Well, no, you got to put your name on somebody else’s business, right?

Chris
24:35
Yes. And so we just, hey, there’s that amazing thing called Google, and you can find somebody else that way, just like you did us. But, you know, that’s just not the kind of projects we focus on, if it’s a get in and out and be done, that’s not us. We’re a bigger planning, slow it down company at this point, Jeff.

Robert
24:53
So that’s. That’s a cool perspective right there about slowing down. But, like, so let’s say I’m an entrepreneur. I’m doing $20,000 average jobs.

Chris
24:59
Yep.

Robert
25:00
And someone comes to me and says, I want. I got 120 grand. I want to do x, y, and z. Can you do it? And then in my mind, as the entrepreneur, you know, been in business maybe four or five years, I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know if we should take it on. I’m not sure if we can make this happen. And they’re thinking, maybe they shouldn’t. Maybe they should. What’s your advice to those folks?

Chris
25:20
I think I’ve learned over the years there’s different types of entrepreneurs and business owners. There’s people who have a business, but all they have is a job. They’ve created a job for themselves. It’s not sellable. The business. It isn’t. They.

Robert
25:36
They are, like, dependent on them.

Chris
25:38
It is. It’s 100% dependent on them. If they get sick or injured, it folds. They’re robbing Peter to pay Paul. Like, they don’t have any money in the account, really, until the client pays them. So then they can buy materials for the next project. If you’re that, then I think what we’re talking about won’t even apply. If you’re the other one, which I think is somebody that wants to build a business. And it doesn’t have to be like, we are 30 employees. Maybe you just want to have five to ten, but you don’t want to be all dependent upon you all the time.

Chris
26:10
You want to have some key staff, then I think that’s the kind of person I like to align with when I’m talking about business stuff, because that’s where I find myself, is I want to grow this thing honestly so that I can take a passive income from it in the next ten years and kind of hang out with my wife and my kids and play some golf and do some other things and not be tied daily to my business. And so if that’s you, to take on that $120,000 job when your average is 20, I think I would look at what kind of cash do I have. What, like, what ability to pay things later do I have with my vendors? Have I set that up? Am I.

Chris
26:50
Do I have terms, essentially, so I can take a job like that on, and then I would make sure I structure my contract with the client that I’m getting progress paid to from them. So I’m not getting like 60 grand down and then waiting on the other 60 till I’m completed. I would have it set so I have a smaller deposit, and then I get cash every, like, week to two weeks from the client so that I have cash flow coming in to support that job. Because I’ll tell you right now, you’re not going to get hours on that $120,000 job the first time you do it. You’re going to. You’re going to mess something up. Yeah.

Robert
27:20
And so, and what I’m hearing from you, though, is do it.

Chris
27:24
So that’s how I am. I would 100%.

Robert
27:27
I love it.

Chris
27:28
We offer our biggest so far was, I think, around a half million, and it freaked me out, but I was like, what the hell? What are we going to do, not do it?

Robert
27:37
Let’s go, baby.

Chris
27:38
Somebody else is going to get this job. I want my name on it. Let’s do it. We have the people and the staff and the resources to do this. Let’s talk to our vendors. Let’s get some terms. Most of the vendors have experts in the different areas, whether it’s irrigation or hardscaping, and they’ll come give you knowledge, too, and help you out with this stuff if you’re not sure how to build it.

Robert
27:58
Oh, ask for help. Okay, so talk about mentorship, asking for help, you know, how has that helped you? I mean, even when you started this thing, your business partner was a quasi mentor, had an opportunity to take you under his wing. Now, I know you’ve got other mentors. You know, can you just speak to what that looks like? The power of having some folks around you that, you know, kind of scaffolding to help you build.

Chris
28:21
I’ve never been afraid to ask for directions if I’m lost or ask for help, period. I’m not that prideful. I would rather get the project done and done right so I never have to redo it as opposed to fumble my way through it. And so I have found, you know, through church and other places, I, a lot of my friends are handy folks, and I can call upon them and say, hey, I have one really good buddy who runs his own construction company, does interior remodels, and I can call him all the time and say, hey, how are flash this deck to the house under the sliding glass door so that I don’t get water penetration and they’ll tell me the products and things to use. And then YouTube is a tremendous resource. Same with Instagram.

Chris
29:05
You know, you can search different construction companies, and they often put up tips and other things. And it’s from guys doing it on the daily, not just some textbook or somebody that’s telling you theory. It’s, hey, this is what I have found to work, and it’s worked for 20 years.

Robert
29:22
And then what about mentorship?

Chris
29:24
That has been a big one for me. When I took over, I reached out to a few people older than me and just said, I see what you’ve built, whether it was the lumberyard or hardscape company. And I would really like to understand a bit of some of the trials and things you went through to get there so that hopefully I don’t have to reinvent the wheel.

Chris
29:48
And I have really found that a lot of guys are, when you kind of come that way to them and build them up a little bit and sweet talk them, they’re often, especially if I’m not trying to take valuable time away from them, if I’m willing to really adjust my schedule to fit theirs, or they call today and say, I could meet you in half an hour, I try to drop what I’m doing to fit into their schedule, and oftentimes they’re very willing to just tell me what they think on the subject or what they screwed up and what they think I shouldn’t do moving forward.

Robert
30:24
Well, I mean, and it’s really honest to sweet talk them because you’re asking their opinion, because you value what they’ve done.

Chris
30:32
Right.

Robert
30:32
Like, it’s not, you know, that kind of ask for a mentor is pretty natural to sweet talk because that’s the nature of the reason of speaking with them. I think it’s really important people get that. And when people are successful, they want to spend time with people that want to be successful. Like, yes, a lot of people, I think, forget that mentors, like mentees. Like, they actually enjoy it. It’s a two way street.

Chris
30:52
Yeah. I’ve also not been afraid to spend money and hire professionals. So there’s a couple people in the industry, like Tony Bass comes to mind. He’s in Georgia. I have worked with Jeffrey Scott. I’ve worked with a few others through the years, and they’re expensive. There’s just no way around it. We’re not talking like a couple hundred bucks. But in doing that and hiring them, whether it was for a business, corporate meeting or ongoing kind of mentorship and training or business coaching, it has been so life giving to me to do that and well worth the investment that I look back on. I think that’s another thing. I’ve never been afraid to spend the money to make the most. I don’t live. I’m not a fearful person. And so I don’t kind of do a lot of the what ifs in my mind.

Chris
31:46
I tend to make a decision, and then I’m rolling, and my wife jokes with me all the time. She’s like, things just work out for you. It’s like, well, it’s kind of what you make of it. Right? I tend to be positive and believe they are going to work out, and I’m also willing to work my butt off to make sure that happens. Yeah.

Robert
32:02
It’s amazing how good luck seems to follow hard work.

Chris
32:05
Yes, yes. And I don’t think that’s an accident.

Robert
32:09
Yeah, I think you’re right. And, like, you know, spend the money to make the money. I think sometimes also, like, you can. It’s like making bets. Some bets pay off, some don’t.

Chris
32:19
Yeah.

Robert
32:19
And firing some bullets to see if something’s going to work can go a long way because if it hits, it goes well. Like, you know, was it. Warren Buffett said that one out of ten investments went well.

Chris
32:31
pretty good ratio.

Robert
32:35
He did okay, right?

Chris
32:37
Yeah, he’s doing all right. Yeah, I agree with you on that.

Robert
32:40
It.

Chris
32:41
I think, you know, it’s not like we have ever made just these mountains of cash. There’s been years that were super lean and were just kind of grinding through it, but I always felt like there’s the rainbow ahead, you know, and if I just do this stuff now, it will pay off later. And I know we’re over ten years into it, but it’s starting to feel like it’s actually working that way for me now. And I had to kind of grind through the hard stuff to get to the light end of the tunnel, and I’m not all the way there, but I’m definitely on the right track at this point, and that feels really good.

Robert
33:14
Okay, so then, you know, as we kind of come to the end of the interview here on this podcast, what would you say? Like, you know, if you think about business year to year, as lessons learned, good outcomes, bad outcomes were incrementally adding to the business, were making it stronger for the long term? Is there one or two things that kind of come off as key decisions or key things that you brought into the business that made it successful over time?

Chris
33:44
For us, its driven around our people making good decisions on bringing new staff in. So I already mentioned my brother works with me. My best friend from childhood, Cameron, has worked at Father Nature since 2012. Another friend from high school works with us. And it’s not to say all those have been successful, but we are really getting better at if a bad Apple has shown themselves to be that way, then they got to go. And we want high performers and people that are accountable and that are very team oriented to join us. And if you’re kind of the lone wolf and you’ll figure it out all on your own, that’s not a good fit for us. And so hiring the right people and honestly not being afraid when you meet that person, that blows your socks off.

Chris
34:36
And in my head, there’ll be times where I’m like, man, my crews are full, my inside staff is full, but I can’t pass on this person. And I know my numbers pretty well at this point. Like, yeah, but if I bring them on, that’s going to cut into. We usually just make the decision to bring them on and we’ll figure out how we’re going to pay for them and some of that as time goes on. And that has never bit me in the butt ever.

Robert
35:00
So then help some people. Like recruiting, getting staff, recruiting, finding the right people. Huge growth constraint from a lot of people’s perspective has been years. It was intensified the last couple. We’ll see if it maintains itself over the next couple of years. Regardless though, a tip or trick, something that you’re done in the recruiting that’s helped you know, find some good folks.

Chris
35:23
That’s a good question. So we feel really blessed in that because I hear that all the time too. Like there’s just nobody out here. And it’s not to rag, but it is a little, I guess we don’t have that issue. We typically have one to two people coming in every week to our front desk at our receptionist asking to fill out an application. But that didn’t just happen. And so I’ve been intentional about recruiting for a long time. So I’m a part of our master builders and a couple other associations, and I go to meetings and I meet other contractors and I go to events where I can set up a table and put brochures out and I go, there’s some colleges in our area and I attend those I went to. And you go, I do. As the business owner, yes.

Chris
36:12
I feel like because I’m the branch manager and the business owner, I feel like that’s part of my responsibility to.

Robert
36:18
Find epic people is to try and.

Chris
36:20
Find epic people and bring them in to the fold. And so, like, I went to a one this spring at a. I forget what kind of college it’s called, but it’s. It’s like a trade school. And they were doing mock interviews, and so I got to go meet, it was like 20 young people, 19, 2021, all in the carpentry, construction trade. And I was pretending to interview them. And so I was able to also give all of them my business card and say, hey, I’m always looking for great people, especially the ones I liked, you know? Cause some of them, I was like, we’re good. You’re all right. Thank you. And then others were standouts, and so I gave them my card and just introduced myself a bit more before the next interviewee came in. And I like that stuff, though.

Chris
37:08
I don’t love public speaking, but I force myself to do it. When opportunities present themselves to try and get better, I really think I excel more on the one to one to two type setting, and so I look for those opportunities, and because I’ve put the word out in my community, I get asked for that stuff. It’s awesome. Not all the time, but it comes enough. And when it comes up, I clear my schedule and I go do it. And then. Shocking. Now I have people knocking on the door pretty regularly looking for jobs. We also try really hard when employees leave, which we get a lot of that. People are chasing the dollar all the time.

Robert
37:46
Sure.

Chris
37:47
And so we try to, as best we can, make them feel special and celebrated on the way out. And, like this week, I’m not. I’m not kidding. I had two guys come back this week that begged for their jobs back. They were great people. And so we had some discussions with them on what it was like when they left and what we need from them moving forward, but we brought them back huge. And so it’s like, the grass isn’t always greener, you know?

Robert
38:12
And sometimes they got to go see it.

Chris
38:14
They do, and we understand that, which is cool, right?

Robert
38:17
Instead of egos being burnt and bridges, you know, going down in flames, you maintain those relationships and wish them all the best, and then who knows what comes back around. I just can’t stress how important it is to just listen to what Chris said here in that, you know, I swear, nine out of ten landscape entrepreneurs staff can’t find anybody. How many of them are going out there and talking to these kids, being at these events, you know, being out in the community, engaging with young folks in contracting and trade.

Chris
38:50
So it might sound silly, too, rob, but, like, at a restaurant, I usually have business cards in my wallet, and I have left my card a few times for a fantastic server and ask them, you know, and, like, if they’re talkative and chat my wife and I up, ask them how they like their job. Sometimes they love it. Other times they’re like, well, yeah, it’s kind of a job. And that’s when I’ll leave a business card and say, hey, look my website up and give me a call if you’re interested in a different opportunity.

Robert
39:15
Epic and hospitality server staff, especially in good organizations. Like, we got the keg here. You ever been to one of those?

Chris
39:23
Yeah. Yeah.

Robert
39:24
Like, their training is epic.

Chris
39:26
Yep.

Robert
39:27
You know, you grab a. And then.

Chris
39:28
And. But.

Robert
39:29
And you can level them up, right? Like, they’re.

Chris
39:30
They’re.

Robert
39:31
They’re good at doing what they’re doing. I think hospitality staff is a really cool fishing hole, and a lot of things, a lot of people don’t necessarily consider that. So we’ll keep it between us. I know it’s kind of weird. It’s podcast, so I guess everybody’s gonna hear it.

Chris
39:41
Yeah. But I think lastly, too, I. I would say we aren’t afraid to hire from outside of our industry. We don’t have an incredibly robust training program. We’re working to improve it. But I wouldn’t be hesitant to bring someone in that’s never swung a hammer or pushed a shovel around. But they’re a wonderful person. They have great skill. Like, they can talk and you can jive with them and all that. We feel like we can train you how to do a landscape, but I can’t always train you how to be a decent person and someone I want to spend time with.

Robert
40:16
You definitely can. And also, somebody asked me, like, how do you motivate millennials? And I was like, you don’t you find the motivated ones? Yeah, you can’t motivate people. This is awesome, man. Okay, so wrap up one last one. If there was a resource, book, speaker, you know, video, podcast, whatever, that you would recommend someone to check out to help them grow their landscape business or business in general or themselves. As a leader, what would you. What would you say?

Chris
40:49
Hold on, let me grab it.

Robert
40:51
All right, sweet.

Chris
40:55
All right, so I mentioned Tony Bass, and so he’s not paying me for anything like this, but years ago, I read this book, Michael Gerber, the Emyth.

Robert
41:06
So good.

Chris
41:08
And I remember driving around Tacoma, and my. My, like, head, the purple blew out, and I was. My head exploded when I read some of this stuff because I was doing this. Yeah. And then Tony worked with Michael Gerber and wrote this one, the Emyth landscape contractor. Epic. And I read it as well. And it. Obviously, it’s more specific to what I do, but those resources for me changed how I was looking at the business at the time. That’s when I switched from having a job to feeling like I’m a business owner and I have a business that I want to build that I could either sell someday or I could pass down, or I could just, like, quietly retire from. And I told you, take a passive income from.

Robert
41:54
I love it. There’s this quote we. We have at the talks we do, and it’s. It’s Gerber. Michael Gerber. It says, if your business depends on you don’t own a business, you have a job. And it’s the worst job in the world because you’re working for a lunatic.

Chris
42:07
Yep. Amen.

Robert
42:11

You’re the best, man. Thank you so much for doing this. And if you’ve made it this far, everybody, thank you so much for listening to this podcast with Chris Shear from Father Nature. Thanks, man.

Chris
42:20
Rob. You’re welcome. My pleasure.