Sal Hernandez on Scaling Smarter, Not Harder (GroXmart)

00:00
Robert
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the I Am Landscape Growth podcast, where entrepreneurs help entrepreneurs grow faster, better, and stronger in the green industry. From leadership to sales to recruiting and operational excellence, we cover the topics holding entrepreneurs back and share how to get past those bottlenecks with the best in the industry. I’m your host, Rob Murray, co founder and CEO of Intrigue, a digital marketing company focused on helping landscape companies grow. So sit back and enjoy the show. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the I Am Landscape Growth podc. I have a. I would say a dear friend, an amazing connection that helped me understand how to better in the green industry. Sal Hernandez from GrowSmart and Pacific Breeze building the solutions. Thanks so much for doing part of this, man. Appreciate you. Thanks.

00:48
Sal
Thank you, man. Thank you for inviting me once again. It’s a pleasure to see you after the last time we saw each other over at the convention.

00:56
Robert
Yeah, it was Atlanta, right? Last time we saw each other. Right.

01:00
Sal
Yeah.

01:01
Robert
All right, so. Well, why do I say dear friend and helping me understand this whole thing? So Sal was so kind to reach out. I don’t know. I want to say it was like 2022. Ish. I think it was 2022. We met up and at Equip when were. We did a cold outreach campaign via email at some point. I’ll discuss that in the podcast. And I actually think it was your counterpart from brave, you, Eric Santos, who. Who replied. And then we had an opportunity to meet up through your relationship in CLCA or the California Landscape Contractors association, which then gave us an opportunity to better understand the challenges and opportunities that come along with state association trying to support landscape contractors and then having an opportunity to come meet a bunch of them in California, you included.

01:53
Robert
And it just was like, oh, hey, cool. Like, we found our people. Like, you were like one of the first dudes we met. We’re just like, oh, these people are legit. Like, you work hard, play hard. You know, you all try to win a professionalism, and at the time you were on the board and I just appreciate everything you do, not only for your. The businesses that you help, but also the association and just trying to lift the professionalism of the industry. So thank you for doing that.

02:19
Sal
Thank you, man.

02:20
Robert
So as goes the. The podcast format. If you could just give the audience a little bit of a backstory in terms of, like, your experience industry, owning your company, and now helping coach others. Can you just give us a quick, like, synopsis, summary of, like, how you come through that path?

02:39
Sal
Yeah. So I grew up In Southern California. I SoCal, what’s up? Yeah, so cow. Basically, I helped my dad when I was young. We would go and mow lawns all throughout Huntington beach or whatnot. So I grew up in the industry, sort of being exposed later down the road. I joined the military after high school, and when I came out of high school, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. So I went and fell back on to sort of what I knew to do. And yeah, I went with my dad and asked him like, hey man, do you by any chance have your landscape license? And he was like, no, I never had any need for it. Right.

03:28
Sal
Nevertheless, long story short, I ended up applying for my license because I qualified for it and I got my license and I started hitting off the road. But it wasn’t until I linked up with the CLCA that it really took off. I was able to seek mentorship through other contractors that had been in the industry for such a long time. I got really involved on the board because I knew that being involved on the board was definitely the way to even get exposed, you know, and being on the board sort of helped me get exposed to everyone throughout the state. And I was just, you know, around a bunch of guys that had been in the industry for such a long time, and that’s. I was able to successfully grow my company.

04:15
Sal
Then I also brought in, you know, the knowledge from the military, whatever I learned from college and school, and I applied it all and combine it all together and yeah, so that’s essentially how I started Pacific Breeze Building Solutions. It used to be Pacific Breeze Landscape because landscape was how we started and that’s all we did. And now I’ve. I’ve sold pretty much the majority of my equity to my business partner. By the end of this year, I’ll be completely out. And I have transitioned into Growth Smart Solutions, which is small business coaching, contractor coaching. Additionally, next week I’m going to take my test for my commercial insurance license so that I can streamline both. Eventually, what I want to do is give back to the community by offering free services.

05:15
Sal
So what I want to do is, yeah, sell the insurance so that’s the source of income that’s coming in. However, be able to provide some free coaching on the side.

05:27
Robert
So that’s why I love you, buddy. Like, there’s so few people in this world have that kind of mindset. How can I deliver value easy for money? And then how can I just make the value so crazy that you’d Be stupid to not work with me.

05:41
Sal
Right?

05:43
Robert
It’s all. It’s awesome, man. And I just appreciate for doing that. Okay, so let’s. Let’s just, for the sake of the audience, understanding who they’re listening to, Pacific Breeze, like, what. What was the core focus of that company? What is the core focus of that company? Like, what was the size and what was the kind of customer you’re dealing with? Oh.

05:59
Sal
So we started off, you know, like any company. You start off kind of taking on whatever job comes your way. We started off taking soft skate jobs, irrigation, planting, so on and so forth. However, there started to be a demand for hardscape, which is concrete, mainstream work, pavers, you name it. I would tell the clients, look, that’s not my expertise. That’s not what I do. I only focus on the soft skate side of things. But I was losing job to other contractors that were doing both, essentially. Other contractors were either shoving it out or, you know, they had.

06:33
Robert
Trying to figure it on the fly or something.

06:35
Sal
Right, right. So I ended up taking a job that did require some small design and some hardscape, and I hired this. This. This company as a sub. Anyways, the sub and one of his workers ended up, like, getting into it later. And the guy called me. He’s like, hey, do you have any work for me? I was like, I don’t, but you’re a really good worker, and I would totally love to have you on my team. Nonetheless, he became my main foreman. Even to this day, he’s. He’s at Pacific Breeze Building Solutions. He’s the main guy. So it went from just soft skates to hardscapes. And then there was a demand for design work, which, again, I would tell my client, like, I don’t do design. That’s not my expertise.

07:27
Sal
And again, I started losing jobs to the guys that were taking on the design work, slash construction. So I, at this time, I already have my master’s degree in business, bro. So I’m like, I don’t need to go back to school. But I did go back to school to community college just to take one or two courses in design work so that I can implement design into, you know, the. The scope of the work.

07:51
Robert
Yeah.

07:52
Sal
And I started with sketches. I started with drawing everything to scale by hand. And I was like, this is getting too much. I need to actually find a program. Found a program. And that’s when everything got taken to the next level. And the next thing you know, we’re a full. We’re blown outdoor design Build type of company. I got up to about almost $3 million in revenue with about 50 employees slash subs under US payroll is crazy. And I, I never imagined and in how short period of time that was going to grow and scale. So yeah, that’s how big.

08:38
Robert
And, and like all residential or mostly residential.

08:41
Sal
That’s that was, I want to say like 98 was residential, about 1 to 2% was commercial. Now Pacific Breeze is more gearing towards commercial versus residential.

08:57
Robert
And just for the audience sake. Yeah, so, and why the transition then? Just so people can understand it.

09:05
Sal
Transition from residential to commercial. The, the commercial side for one is just greater margins on certain projects. You don’t have to deal with a lot of the headaches that you deal with the residential customers. Yeah, a lot of times with the residential customers, there’s an emotional connection to their yard, which is great. But you need a good salesperson or a customer support person to be in front of the client because construction is a stressful thing, you know.

09:49
Robert
Yeah. For, well your whole thing gets messed up for us as much.

09:52
Sal
As it is months at a time, you know. So it is stressful. So. And, and it’s crazy because the higher, the greater in terms of money wise, the greater the project, the more nitpicky I feel the client is. Right. So it’s the higher quality of client that you’re gonna have to deal with. So I noticed that as we started landing these 100, 150 lot of jobs, the clients got pickier, you know, so why put up with all that stress when here you have a $500,000 commercial job and they understand what’s involved.

10:41
Robert
They’ve been doing it for a while. They’re happy that you’re there doing your job. High five it when they see you once every six months.

10:48
Sal
Yeah, we’re good. Yeah. So as long as you have something that’s running efficiently, then you have no problem with.

10:56
Robert
Right. So the efficiency thing, I, we need to get to in a minute. Just because your military background, I feel like lends itself very well to that kind of idea. So before we do that though, okay, two things. The first one though, GrowSmart. Just give us a quick rundown. What did you transition into? Because you just said that you grew this company 3 million plus and then you’re selling your equity to your partner and you’ve moved to this small business coaching and then eventually getting your insurance license so you can like Sell the insurance and then coach people for free, essentially. But what is Gross GrowSmart all about?

11:28
Sal
So GrossMart solution was literally came about because I had a couple guys that I told, like, yeah, you know, I’m getting out. I’m gonna be doing something else. Well, what are you gonna be doing? And I was like, yeah, I don’t know yet. You know, he’s like, well, can you mentor me? I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. You know. Well, how much are you going to charge? I didn’t think about charging, you know, so I’ve always been a guy that I don’t care about sharing my nuggets. I’m cool with. With sharing.

12:00
Robert
That’s almost inappropriate, but I hear you.

12:03
Sal
Not the nuggets.

12:06
Robert
Man. I’m just joking. I’m also trying to, like, eat, like, let people know when you come on this show. It’s cool. Like, you can have some fun. Anyway. Keep going, keep going. I appreciate that. The whole point is, like, you’re an open book, right?

12:17
Sal
So, yeah, that’s my attitude, has always been that way. There’s a lot of information already out there in the Internet. It’s just, how do you take that information, process it, and implement it? So I had a couple guys reach out to me and like, yeah, I want mentorship. And that’s sort of what prompted all this. I’m like, well, maybe I come up with the business model that I developed for Pacific Breeze. And this whole. For a year, I was just working with someone to help me create this whole workbook that I developed. A lot of the stuff that I modeled was sort of influenced by eos, Entrepreneurial Operating System, Legit. And then all the books that I’ve read, like the EMIs, you know, again, back to Gina Withman Traction, man. I can’t think of all these.

13:20
Robert
There’s a lot. There’s lots. There’s so many resources.

13:22
Sal
Yeah. So, you know, I sort of put all my. My business model together into, like, a workbook. And, yeah, so that’s how that came about. And I’ve helped, you know, a few businesses that have been interested in growing and, you know, something as simple as helping them develop processes, I. Identifying the processes and. And developing them and making them their own. To me, that’s. That’s gratifying. So it’s one of those things that I get to help people and, you know, get paid for it and.

14:00
Robert
Yeah, it’s cool, man. Appreciate that. Okay, so primary growth constraint that you see holding back entrepreneurs in the green industry. What is it.

14:15
Sal
Unorganized lack of processes which lead to inefficiency and lead to leaving money on the table, essentially. You know, your margins are lower, less returns, and a lot of times the bottlenecks. Almost 100 of the time, the bottlenecks is the owner.

14:43
Robert
Tell me more.

14:44
Sal
Yeah, well, the owners are so used to, like. This is how I’ve always done it. This is how it’s always been done. I want to make sure that it gets done right. I want to make sure that it gets done this certain way.

14:59
Robert
Well, then write it down perfectly.

15:02
Sal
Write it down. That’s fine. Write it down. Write it down. Create a. Step by step, create a video and give that to the next guy.

15:10
Robert
You know, that sounds so simple. Hold on a second, Sal. You’re just saying if I want something done right, I gotta write down how I would do it, make a video, and then give it to somebody. That sounds too simple, but.

15:23
Sal
Right.

15:23
Robert
It’s crazy.

15:24
Sal
Yeah, that’s. That’s the way that you’re supposed to be doing it, man. And it’s the reality. I think one of the biggest advantages for Pacific Breeze was that I didn’t know everything.

15:37
Robert
I didn’t know everything, and you knew.

15:39
Sal
That and I knew that.

15:40
Robert
Yeah, you knew. You didn’t know everything.

15:42
Sal
But I did know the guy that knew how to do the processes that I lacked on or the construction. You know, in fact, I was more. The whole time, I was more in. Engaged in the business side versus the trade side.

15:57
Robert
See, a lot of these guys, which is uncommon.

15:59
Sal
It is uncommon. So a lot of these guys are the opposite. Yeah, they know the trade side.

16:05
Robert
They are the E Myth.

16:07
Sal
Yeah, they don’t understand the, the business side. And that’s the problem is like, hey, listen, you. If you, if you really want to build a business, you got to get out of the mindset of you being the trades person and train your people and then move on and, and step out of that role, you know, little by little, start delegating. And that’s one thing that I learned in the military was delegation. You’re automatically learned to delegate by.

16:43
Robert
By, like the nature of the hierarchy.

16:45
Sal
Like the nature of the hierarchy. Yeah, you get promoted, guess what? Now you’re above your peers and your superiors will hold you to that standard. And if, you know, we could be hanging out one day, you and I are peers, and then let’s say the next day, you know, I get promoted. And, you know, yeah, we could still be kicking it, but if something goes wrong, guess who they’re coming after. They ain’t coming after you, they’re coming after the higher ranking guy. So naturally you have to kind of, you know, like, hey, dude, you know, I’m in charge of you now. Like I, you gotta do this or we gotta get it done or I gotta, you know, write you up, you know.

17:26
Robert
Right. So then maybe. Well, let’s talk to this couple things. There’s a couple like this military background. I’ve seen it in a lot of entrepreneurs that have come with military experience. Typically they were successful for lots of reasons, a lot that you’ve already articulated. But I wanted to break this down because this is a, a big deal, especially for somebody who’s on the tools, working side by side with people and needing to, or wanting to elevate the business by having to get themselves out of the tools.

17:51
Robert
So if I’m listening to the podcast right now, as a landscape entrepreneur who may be on the tools or about to get off or have just gotten off, and I’m struggling with the relationships of the folks that used to be my peers but now are reporting to me and I have to make sure they’re doing a good job. What kind of tips, tricks, tactics can you share with those people on like how to create a bit of separation while still keeping that trust and respect as, you know, being side by side.

18:21
Sal
So let me give you the prime example, dude. When I first started Pacific Breeds, it was just me and my dad. My dad became my employee because he wasn’t the one going out doing the estimates, do the sales and all that. It was me. I was the one doing all the marketing, doing all the back end stuff. So I had to have a one one with my dad and I’m like, hey, listen dad, this is how it’s going to be. I have to separate myself from the field and I either need to hire a worker to help you and you get some help and you guys together knock out these jobs and I have to focus on doing the sales and estimating and doing all the marketing, basically all the back end stuff, or we’re gonna have to go our separate ways.

19:09
Sal
You do your thing, I’ll hire somebody and you know, I’ll go that route. So it was one of those conversations that, you know, they call it like a come to Jesus, right?

19:20
Robert
Yeah, sure. But the way you framed it though is pretty like, you know, you’re just saying this is what’s up and here are our options. And you were, it didn’t seem like you were tied to a Result, like, either option was okay, right?

19:37
Sal
So, yeah, either option was okay with me.

19:39
Robert
But I think some people get emotionally tied to, like, one option having to be the answer, and if it doesn’t work, well, they’re like, yeah.

19:47
Sal
So, yeah, that was. That’s what happened with my dad. And my dad was like, all right. And then that’s how. That’s how that. That relationship evolved. And then as I hired people coming in, you know, I had already set myself as, like, the manager, the boss. And I would just. One of the things that. That I would tell my guys to. It’s one thing that I learned in the military from this. This one guy. He would say, you know, he would always say, hey, Hernandez, we gotta make sure that we mop the floor and do this and that. I’m like, dude, you always say we, but you never do. He’s like, I know that. I’m like, but why do you say we? Because we brings, like, an inclusivity of it, and it’s sort of. It’s. We’re still a team.

20:42
Sal
I still got to get all this other stuff done, right? And this is part of the stuff that gets. Has to get done. So I’m still part of that team, part of this process. I was like, I love that. I was like, oh, that totally makes sense. And after that day, dude, I was like, whatever you need me to do, bro, you know, you want me to go wash the dishes, I’ll do it. You know. So I think, you know, when you are part of the team and you’re inclusive and you’re not, you know, like, hey, you know, we need to make sure that this wall gets built at this height and this gets done at. At this height and make sure we level and grade, you know, I think the team. The team appreciates that.

21:21
Robert
Yeah. Well, I mean, and the. The words we use are usually a product of the way we think.

21:28
Sal
Yeah.

21:28
Robert
And so if we’re using words that talk about we’re thinking about we. And I think that. That. I think that’s really profound to be quite. I mean, I’ve done a lot of these interviews s. And, like, you know, I think you’re dropping some. You know, you’re sharing your nuggets. But it’s a big deal, right? It’s not in this. And it. It just reminds me this idea that people will often forget what you say. They’ll never forget how you made them feel.

21:55
Sal
Right.

21:56
Robert
And this idea of we, I think, can go a long way. And. And it’s. It’s in line with that age old adage of if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

22:07
Sal
Right. And another thing, like I said, I didn’t. Wasn’t really knowledgeable about the trade side, but I knew the process and as we started to grow and my main foreman, his name’s Richard, he, When I would approach him with a new concept of a design or whatever, and I would ask him like, hey, dude, have you built something like this before? He’s like, not exactly like that. I don’t know how to do that particularly. I’m like, let’s figure it out. As long as you know, because a lot of times some construction stuff that’s custom, you kind of figure it out.

22:51
Robert
It’s a Rubik’s Cube sometimes, right? Like a lot of times, yeah.

22:54
Sal
So I would give him the opportunity and if he would mess it up, like take it out, do it again, you know, and it would cost me money, but it was a learning experience for him.

23:07
Robert
Yeah, it’s a training expense.

23:09
Sal
It’s a training expense. Yeah. So, you know, he would master it and boom, the next time we’re doing it, we don’t have to go through that process. Now he could train someone else to do that. And like, now all my guys are getting trained to know how to do a certain thing. And that’s one of the things that I think will set also a, a business owner for success, is that it’s okay if your guys make mistakes. You know, as long as they learn from it. You know, as long as they learn from it, then it’s all right for them to make certain mistakes.

23:47
Robert
Yeah. Well, it’s interesting. I was at the NALP Leaders Forum in Costa Rica this year, and one of the guys, I can’t remember his name, it doesn’t matter, but he was talking about how he treats his team similar to like a kid riding a bike. Like a kid, when he rides the bike, he wants to get, the kid wants to get far on the bike. Right. And so when the kid falls and skins its knee, that’s probably not a good time to yell at the kid.

24:13
Sal
Right, Right, right. Yeah.

24:14
Robert
So it’s like, okay, cool, like, you fell off, we dust you off, let’s get back up on the bike. What went wrong? How do we learn from it and how do we do it better next time? Yeah, I think a lot of people can go a long way with that kind of approach to their team, to your Point.

24:28
Sal
Yeah. And I do want to note this. Don’t confuse mistakes with illegal. There’s a difference between making a. A mistake while you’re doing your job versus doing something illegal while you’re doing your job. For example, you know, showing up hungover and you make a mistake. Like. No, like. Yeah, that’s. That’s. That’s not exciting.

24:48
Robert
Well, we talk about this a lot, right? Like, if you are trying to be your best and you f up, you can hold your chin up high, knowing that you’re trying to better and you made a mistake.

25:00
Sal
Right.

25:01
Robert
If you’re trying to be a. Pardon my language, and you’re circumventing or cutting corners, coming in hungover, whatever, and you mess up because of that situation, well, then it’s on you. And there’s no pity for me.

25:13
Sal
Right. 100% like that. That was all you know?

25:16
Robert
Yeah. Yeah. And you got to own it. And if you do, I’ll give you one more chance. But if you don’t, you’re out.

25:20
Sal
Yeah.

25:21
Robert
Yeah, that’s cool. All right. So then coming back to this idea of unorganized lack of process and inefficiencies when it comes to, like, a growth constraint, and then understanding for sure that you have this, like, discipline that’s been baked in through a military experience, which I would expect was. Been pretty life changing at some level.

25:39
Sal
Yeah.

25:41
Robert
What do you. Where do you see people the most unorganized when they’re trying to figure out how to grow.

25:49
Sal
In the administrative side in their processes? You know, your marketing. So I recently did a workshop with a team of plumbers, and one of the guys was like, yeah, I want to take on every phone call. I want to, you know, go through my. Talk to the client, know what’s going on. I’m like, well, what’s your niche, bro? What. What kind of work do you do? He’s like, I do emergency plumbing. And so what is your response rate? How fast do you get back to that client that calls you? And he’s like, well, sometimes anywhere between four to six hours on an emergency call. I was like, what are you talking about, dude?

26:37
Robert
That’s like Ontario. That’s like Ontario Healthcare. That’s horrible.

26:41
Sal
You have a pipe that’s leaking and you’re gonna give them a call. By that time, they have found somebody’s already on site.

26:48
Robert
Someone’s on site?

26:49
Sal
Yeah, someone’s already inside. A plumber’s already fixed it by the time you get back. No, I was like, you need to hire a call center. Because they have those.

27:00
Robert
Yeah.

27:01
Sal
That are specific to plumbers, where they know how to answer all those questions on the phone. And you need dispatch. Yeah. You need to focus on just dispatching a team. Or if you’re the one that’s out there doing the work, then you get dispatched. But you need someone to book your calendar, dude, like, 24 7. Boom, boom, boom. And keep you busy.

27:22
Robert
Like.

27:22
Sal
Well, I. I can’t afford that. I’m like, but that’s.

27:27
Robert
You can’t afford not to do it.

27:29
Sal
I was like, that’s gonna. That’s what’s gonna free you up. And it’s gonna give you a broader.

27:34
Robert
Oh, I love it. Sal, man, like, we’re talking. So, like, we’re. We’re in lead generation business, as, you know, like, that’s the whole thing. We focus on landscapers.

27:41
Sal
Yeah.

27:41
Robert
And so, like, sometimes leads are, like, you know, sometimes they’re epic, and they’re just flowing through like crazy, and sometimes they’re, like, not as good. And like, this year is, like, it’s been harder for a lot of people than years past, Especially after Covet. It was a huge gangbuster, right? Just everybody was crushing. So now the leads are, like, you know, coming in slowly. And so we’re, like, trying to coach like crazy. I’m like, okay, like, lead response, lead response. Like, you know, I know you’re harping on us to get you more leads, which of course, we will do. At the same point, though, you’ve got leads, you’re just not working them. And so we’ve done all this research and built all these best practices, which we’ll share at some point.

28:13
Robert
So we’ll probably put a link to the resource as we post this thing. But 400. 400% more likely to get ahold of somebody if you call them within the first five minutes. Yeah, 400% more likely. 78% of customers work with the first company they contact. They contact others. But the first one they contact, there’s 78% more likely to work with them than anybody else. What you’re talking about is critical.

28:38
Sal
Especially for emergency, dude.

28:40
Robert
Emergency.

28:42
Sal
You’re doing emergency plumbing, dude. You need to.

28:45
Robert
The emergency is over. Like, they’ve. They’ve. They’ve. They’ve drowned six hours later.

28:50
Sal
It’s funny because. It’s funny because a couple days later, my. I’m over here working on my computer, you know, and she’s like, bev. I’m like, what? She’s like, come downstairs.

29:01
Robert
We have a leak.

29:02
Sal
I was like, what? I was like, crap. So, you know, don’t call that plumber. I start, I start ripping up the drywall and everything. And you know what? I was like, man. She’s like, do we need to call the plumber? I’m like, yeah, because I got some stuff to do. And I called that plumber. I was like, oh, you know, like, I just met this guy. I’m like, hey, give him a call. Sent them a text, calls me like, later that night, dude. And I was like, hey, I got your message. I’m like, dude, I already handled it, you know. Yeah, I, I handled it myself, you know, I, I stopped the leak, I went and fix the leak, fix the drywall, did it all myself, you know, so.

29:45
Robert
But I would have happily paid you.

29:47
Sal
I would have happily paid him. Yeah.

29:49
Robert
Yeah. Okay, cool. So unorganized processes. We talk about this idea that process is not a process. You write it down. If it’s not written down, it’s not a process.

29:57
Sal
Right.

29:58
Robert
So, but. And then you talked about, like, inefficiencies that come from a lack of processes. So when it comes to, we get a lot of questions around software, like, hey, I. I’m trying to figure out how to price stuff or if I was profitable on jobs or like, I don’t know what should I look at? Like, is there a system that you help people with or is it a spreadsheet? Like, how do you guys figure out how to be efficient with job costing and then like, the actual performance of said jobs?

30:27
Sal
So I don’t necessarily help contractors develop their job costing. I would guide them towards a software.

30:36
Robert
Right.

30:37
Sal
Because there’s like a whole mathematical equation. I don’t really like math, but I know enough to know how to job cost. And look at my margins, my gross.

30:48
Robert
My neck, and your budgets and your actuals and all the things.

30:52
Sal
Yeah.

30:52
Robert
So, but is there a couple that you recommend for folks based on, like, the kind of business they’re in or where they’re at in terms of growth?

30:58
Sal
So one of the biggest things for job costing for us was that we had a really good bookkeeper and we would have her come pick up our receipts and job costs like once a week. We were like a week or two behind on job costing. And we will look at that RPN. Everything was updated in our P&L on QuickBooks. And were able to see how.

31:25
Robert
Well you performed your estimate.

31:27
Sal
Right.

31:28
Robert
So, and so when you started doing that, were you close or were you all like, far Off. That had to, like, correct.

31:34
Sal
Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes I was just far off. Yeah.

31:40
Robert
So then. So how did you start to, like, get closer? Or what was the thing that made you far off? Like, when you started looking at the numbers, what was the. What was the.

31:51
Sal
A lot of times. A lot of times was time. Time management.

31:57
Robert
Like, four guys going to the store to buy a washer. I mean, that’s a horrible example, but illustrates. Right? Right.

32:02
Sal
Like, so the guys would go, and. So we’re at a job site, and the foreman’s like, I need material. Right? I need more material. So he would run to Home Depot. The foreman would run to Home Depot, get what he needed, and come.

32:21
Robert
So the. So the highest paid person on the.

32:23
Sal
Job would go, like, we need to stop doing that. So we had our driver. We had one driver that would deliver material all day. And I would tell them at the end of the day, you need to go to the projects and ask, what do you need for the next day? What are you gonna need for the next day? And they would, you know, come up with the list. And he would go to. To the multiple job sites and then go and pick up the material and. And deliver it. And then we started getting even more creative on the. On the trucks, you know, had like, a little inventory of items most commonly used. Commonly used items. And that. That really improved a lot of our efficiency because time. Time is the biggest. Yeah, it’s. It. That. That’s one of the.

33:27
Sal
The one that you want to keep the most tight is. Is the time of the guys, because that’s the most expensive one, you know, labor.

33:37
Robert
And you can’t get it back.

33:38
Sal
No, you can’t get it back. And then that’s what you would see where, you know, your. Your margins for your labor were higher if it was inefficient.

33:48
Robert
So sweet. So then you go to this idea, efficiency being the name of the game. So what was the. Outside of delegation, but from a military experience, from. From what I’ve witnessed with entrepreneurs that have military experience, the discipline is always, like, a little bit notched up.

34:10
Sal
Yeah.

34:11
Robert
So, like, what was it like? Like, what was the biggest takeaway you.

34:15
Sal
You.

34:15
Robert
You grabbed from your experience there in the military and brought into business, I.

34:19
Sal
Think just being organized, dude, that’s discipline. The discipline of, like.

34:23
Robert
Well, they say. The Navy SEALs, right? They say proper planning prevents poor performance.

34:29
Sal
Yeah. No, but from the administrative standpoint, too, you know, having everything organized in folders and a drive, you know, you got a lot of These contractors that they just have their computers, like, or they.

34:46
Robert
Just have paperwork everywhere or files on a desktop background or whatever, right?

34:50
Sal
So, like, organizing all that, learning how to do all that, staying, being able to find, like, just being able to find a contract. Okay, where’s this contract? All right, what year did we. Did we go into contract with this client? Okay, 2022. Okay, let’s look them. And they were. They were categorized by last name, you know, or whatnot. Look them up. Boom, there it is. And, you know, to take the friction.

35:13
Robert
Out of the system, be able to find the information you need when you need it.

35:15
Sal
Right? So, you know, create folders for clients with, like, all their permits, all their engineering, all their documents, and then turn that over to them at the end the project. Like, you know, here’s. Here’s your final documentation for your reference. Da, da. But being able to just organize all that, you know, when. When. When a client would call if. If it wasn’t our client, just be transparent. Like, this is not the type of job that we take, but here’s a referral. And if it is a client, like, when do you want to meet? Put them. Having. Having, like, a calendar to book them and all that. And showing up on time, you know, showing up when. When you say you’re going to be there.

36:07
Robert
Do what you say you do. When you say you’re going to do it. Oh, man, it’s great. It’s so simple, and it just stands out, which is crazy. So how did you get customers? You know, we talk to people all the time. They’re like, what’s the number one thing I should do for marketing? And we have. We have a bunch of answers, but, like, we want to hear from the horse’s mouth. So, like, what do you do to get customers?

36:25
Sal
So I started off on Yelp. Yelp, at one point was not blackmailing you, and.

36:32
Robert
Oh, now it is, you mean?

36:34
Sal
And it was great. You know, I started off on Yelp, and then we evolved to social media, Facebook and. And Instagram, and we grew our Instagram audience, and were getting some leads from Instagram, and then we evolved to Google Ads, and were getting a couple hits from Google Ads. And I think right now it’s Google Ads and Facebook ads is what’s most effective for contractors, I think.

37:02
Robert
Yeah. And then going from zero to a million, like, what. What did you do out in the community to, like, build relationships and get customers when you’re, like, just trying to, you know, build a company from nothing?

37:13
Sal
So I started off on Like a Facebook community group. The local Huntington Beach Facebook community group started, and I started partnering up with other local businesses that, you know, that people appreciated. One of them was Johnny Saloon in Huntington beach, and they’re, like, super pro veterans. And I linked up with them, like, hey, man, is there a way we can collaborate? I’m like, yeah, so we did. I don’t know if you remember the hurricane in Texas a couple years.

37:44
Robert
Yeah, yeah.

37:45
Sal
So, you know, went volunteered and, you know, just threw my name out there. And, like, the community saw that and, you know, did a little bit of, like, marketing, you know, leverage it. Why not?

37:58
Robert
Well, you’re doing good stuff and letting people know about it, that’s all.

38:00
Sal
Yeah. And then doing a couple volunteer stuff here and there.

38:05
Robert
Oh, wait, so you got involved in your community, you built relationships with other businesses that had successful client bases. You did what you said you’re gonna do it, and you started. And you started to grow.

38:15
Sal
Yeah. And then we started getting a bunch of referrals on. On next Door. And then, you know, when we did the show, I don’t know if I told you, I did hgtv, couple episodes on htv.

38:29
Robert
You kind of have haphazardly mentioned it a few times, but not in detail.

38:34
Sal
Yeah, that was through another contractor. He brought me on board, and he’s like, hey, man, you want to do HTTP with me? I need a landscaper for. For the show.

38:43
Robert
Yes.

38:44
Sal
I was like, sure, why not? So at first I was like, yeah, it’s whatever, you know, but it paid out later down the road because, you know, that’s always going to be there.

38:59
Robert
And, yeah, it’s like an asset over time.

39:02
Sal
Yeah. Hey, I saw you on hgtv. Like, a year later, I saw you on hgtv. I was like, I want to get. I want to get my. My, you know, backyard redone. I’m like, oh, okay, cool. You know, so. And then, big deal. It was crazy because one time I was out surfing and someone came up to me like, hey, I know you. I was like, you do? I was like, yeah. I saw you on htg. I was like, oh, yeah, you also.

39:25
Robert
Cut me off on that wave. Dude, that was mine. Okay, so. So obviously, you know, PR is a big deal, and HTT is a cool opportunity, but you really just did the basics well over time. Fair.

39:39
Sal
Yeah.

39:41
Robert
Okay, cool. So then let’s just jump in this kid, because we’re almost out of time. You were surfing in Huntington beach, and now you’re in Northern California, and I think you might have strapped on a pair of skates. You have a Vegas gold nights hat or pin on your hat. I happen I used to have an. I have an emblem on my hat. We’ll see what they could do. But I’m dealing with ghosts of Christmas past right now because leaves are choke artists. But whatever. What, what made you move and which was essentially like, this is the starting point of getting out of Pacific Breeze. So.

40:11
Sal
Right.

40:11
Robert
Can you just give the audience a bit of like, context in terms of what you’ve done and how you ended up exiting Pacific Breeze?

40:18
Sal
So we ended up moving to Northern California, which is essentially like moving into a different state. We moved because of personal reasons. My wife wanted to move closer to her mom after her dad passed away. And I was like, sure, why not? And I was like, I’ll build a new division up here and I’ll run Pacific Breeze remotely for the most part. And I came over here and it was just a total, completely different market. And I thought about it. I was like, it’s like starting a new business all over again. Do I want to do this? Do I want to get back into this? Into. Into like starting construction and starting fresh? And I was like, you know, I want to do something different.

41:04
Sal
So, you know, I talked to my business partner and we both agreed that maybe exiting was the best option. And you know, we came to the conclusion like, yeah, let me exit. You can buy me out. And that was sort of it.

41:26
Robert
And then. And the cash flow. The business can help buy you out.

41:29
Sal
Right. So, so the, the cash flow of the business. So he’s purchasing me through the business, the money. Obviously I took a pay cut because I’m not really doing much.

41:42
Robert
No, you’re just owner, not rule based. Right, right.

41:45
Sal
So, you know, I just took a pay cut and I told him like, you know, just, you handle it, handle operations. And so, yeah, so we worked out a deal and here we are. And we’re. We’re on good terms. We’re not on bad terms. We’re on good terms. And, and he said, if you ever want to work together again, let’s do it. We work well together. Yeah. Maybe on another endeavor.

42:10
Robert
Yeah, that’s awesome. Not construction. Yeah, that’s cool. So. But you missed the part about strapping on the skates and going from a surfboard to ice. So give us a quick little bit because I know it means a lot.

42:24
Sal
So. Yeah, so I was surfing a lot down in SoCal. And it was just one of those sports that I need a sport to keep me going to kind of my mental health. Right. And when I moved up here I was like, well, there’s really no ocean around me. I have a lake. But you know, to go on the lake you sort of need a bow to create the wave, you know, because I, I wake surf but you need a boat and then you need three people. All right. Every time I got the boat. So now I don’t really have the people all the time. So I was like, so wake surfing is not going to be a hundred percent my thing. So I need to find something else.

43:10
Sal
We, my brother in law took me to do some stick and puck or whatever they call it and I fell in love with it, man. I, I’ve always kind of wanted, when I, since I started watching hockey, I’ve always wanted to kind of try it out. I thought I was old. I am old because my back hurts but nevertheless I fell in love with it. And you know, now I play on two leagues. I actually have a game tonight, so I look forward to my games every time I gotta play. My body hates me.

43:42
Robert
But. And right. And so, and you’re a Vegas Golden Knights fan. And you guys are up three two right now.

43:49
Sal
Three two. Yeah. So if we win tonight. We’re, we’re up against, we’re likely going to be up against Edmonton.

43:56
Robert
Yeah. Which will be a battle like crazy. And so like, and if police wins night, then they’ll be up against Florida and we’ll see how that goes. But I, I’m. Yeah, I don’t have any emotional attachment or at least I try to tell myself that. Okay, before we, before I let you go, what’s one re. You’ve already alluded to a few, you know, Gene Wickman Traction EOS E Myth Michael GERBER but you know, of all the resources you’ve had, what’s one that you want to share with the audience?

44:22
Sal
They should check out E Myth especially if we’re talking about business owners and.

44:29
Robert
Process and consistency and it’ll give you a reality check.

44:32
Sal
Am I meant to be a business owner or am I meant to be employed under somebody you know, at right now? I’ll be honest with you, dude. You know, with the whole getting my insurance license and all that, I could either start my own insurance agency or I could go work for somebody. And I think I will want to go work for somebody for at least two to three years.

44:55
Robert
Yeah, well, you don’t have to deal with anything except for customers.

44:57
Sal
Exactly. You know, I, I, I don’t have the mental capacity right now to want to build something from the bottom up.

45:07
Robert
Yeah, that’s self awareness at its best. Right?

45:11
Sal
Because I have a toddler, I have a, a three year old and we’re about to have another one and I think what’s best. Oh, yeah.

45:19
Robert
So three under four. You’re crazy.

45:21
Sal
I know, I know.

45:24
Robert
And God bless your wife.

45:26
Sal
Yeah. So, so, yeah, so I really want to, I don’t need a lot of, a lot of income. You know, most of my debts paid off. Actually all of my debts paid off. The only thing I got to pay is taxes. And even though I got to pay property taxes, I’m fighting for that too at the Capitol through a veteran organization. So I’m over there. You know, this bill needs to pass, you know.

45:54
Robert
Yeah, you’re lobbying, that’s great.

45:55
Sal
I’m lobbying, dude.

45:56
Robert
I just appreciate you so much, Sal. I appreciate for doing this. If anybody wants to reach out to you about GrowSmart, what should they do to do that?

46:04
Sal
They can reach me at, you know, Sal, Grossmart.com or, you know, and Grow.

46:10
Robert
Smart is with an X. Grow smart. G, R, O, W.

46:15
Sal
That’s correct. You know, they wanna give me a call, you know, 916-238-6104. If I don’t pick up, I, a lot of times I don’t pick up. You know, text me.

46:27
Robert
But it’s okay, you’re not an emergency plumbing, so it’s fine. Yeah, if you’re an emergency, yeah, go call Sal. But if you want help on how to scale and grow your company, you’re the guy to talk to. You anyway, I appreciate you. Thanks so much for doing this. Thanks everybody for listening to another episode of the I Am Landscape growth podcast.

46:43
Sal
Thank you, man.