The $30M Lawn Empire: Kurt LaButte’s 46-Year Growth Playbook

Rob – Intrigue Media (00:01.876)
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the IM am landscape growth podcast. Today I have a really, really cool guest, Kurt LaButte from Todd Services. So pumped to have you on the show. I know it’s been a long time coming, so thank you for doing this.

Kurt LaButte (00:16.639)
Super glad to be here glad to be here

Rob – Intrigue Media (00:19.776)
so I had the opportunity to do some extensive research, as I always do on the people coming on the show, these guests to make sure I’ve got a good handle on like background so I can introduce you properly and, provide a little bit of the essence of, how awesome you are. essentially I found a LinkedIn profile that said Todd services 46 years, nine months.

Kurt LaButte (00:40.375)
Yeah, that’s correct. That’s correct.

Rob – Intrigue Media (00:43.04)
So first of all, at some point we’ll have to have a conversation around how you still look this good. Cause you, I don’t know, did you start the business when you were six or something like that?

Kurt LaButte (00:50.03)
A few years older than that, but yeah, thanks.

Rob – Intrigue Media (00:53.812)
Yeah, anyway, seriously though, it’s amazing. You have a really cool story and I’m really, I’d say honored and grateful to have the opportunity to help you share it. But for the sake of the audience, can you just give a quick rundown of how the heck you got into this thing and try to fast forward, you know, that that time span to give people an idea of where you’re up to today.

Kurt LaButte (01:13.709)
Absolutely. Yeah, I’m actually it’s it’s Kurt Labute, you know, so that’s the out of you. No problem. You’re not the first. Yeah, you’re not you’re not the first person that is has done that. Trust me, it’s a little rough through school. anyways, yeah, so Kurt Labute Todd Services were basically out of the Michigan market. And, you know, we we started actually at a brother that, you know, started with me as actually Todd. So that’s where the Todd comes from. And just started as a couple young.

Rob – Intrigue Media (01:16.842)
The Butte, my bad. I saw you smirk too when I did it.

Kurt LaButte (01:42.261)
you know, young kids, you know what saying, mowing the neighbor’s lawn and so forth. You know, we actually started when we were, you know, obviously very young and, you know, we didn’t have driver’s license. So we lived on the chain of lakes. So we use rowboats and stuff to get our push moors and stuff around. So that was a way to network and work with our clients and so forth. And so, yeah, we just started out small and, you know, persistent and so forth. didn’t know what exactly we wanted to do. And it just one thing led to another.

He was a few years older than me. So he was obviously out of school before I was. And so we decided to, uh, you know, adventure and get a little bit more serious about it. But believe it or not, we actually started out with Todd’s was that was the name because he was obviously older and technically, I guess I probably worked for him for the first, first few years of it. And then, um, then we changed the name. And, um, to a name that we probably shouldn’t have, it was kind of got a little bit of trouble with a copy of another business in the area. So.

I was actually in school still, I was in high school, and I’m saying actually like a freshman and realized that, you know, we couldn’t do that. So I kind of come home from school and next thing you know, our new signs are off the couple of trucks we had on our old signs that was Todd’s was back on. And we said, I will deal with this later. We went back to work and it just stuck. We just never changed it back. So that’s kind of how it had stuck that way. So he made an improv decision to put it back and that’s where it was. And then we incorporated in 1986.

As Todd services so we started in 79 Incorporated in 86 and then you know, I graduated in 89, you know from school so and we just kind of one thing led to another and just kind of grew and expanded and and so forth, you know really didn’t have a great direction other than we you know, like to work hard and trying to make a few bucks and You know kind of one thing led to another and led to another kind of very similar to probably a lot of your listeners do you know, it’s like not everyone

you know, went to college and did all this and had this big fancy career. They just kind of fell into it, you know, whether it be a second generation or started it from scratch and, know, it just kind of stuck and grew into something. So that’s, you know, that’s kind of what we did. We just built it and grew and added trucks and bought things, made mistakes, did a couple of things right, made mistakes, did a couple more things right, made mistakes, you know, just like a lot of people. And I don’t mean, honestly, I yeah, it’s how we got here.

Kurt LaButte (04:03.238)
I know it’s a lot of years, a lot of great people and a lot of staff to do it, but honestly, I can’t believe it’s been that many years to be honest with hear that 46 or whatever, know, we’re 50 years and 70 and 29. honestly, that shocks me. I don’t even know how and how we got here, but somehow we did. you know, so now we’re growing, we’re expanding, you know, increasing our list of services and what we provide. You we started out mowing grass and then.

actually got away from mowing grass and now we’re back into mowing grass. So we’ve, you know, dabbled with, you know, services and what we do and why we do and how we do it. And just kind of continued to grow it, build it. And, you know, now we’re kind of going into a second generation and transitions and three branches across the state of Michigan and hopefully maybe in a fourth here in another couple of years. you know, we’re having fun. So I don’t know.

Rob – Intrigue Media (04:55.084)
It’s amazing. there’s a couple things. So first of all, just for people listening, what’s the size of the business? Revenue, staff, whatever you want.

Kurt LaButte (05:03.564)
About 28 million, so just under 30 million currently. We’re 180-ish employees, you know what saying, in peak, across all platforms, all branches. So we do design, build, we do construction, residential, commercial, snow removal, obviously in this part of the market. Commercial maintenance, residential, spraying, full list of services and construction and all those types of things.

Rob – Intrigue Media (05:31.405)
Yeah. Okay. Amazing. so there’s, there’s, yeah, there’s a couple pieces here. Uh, but first, okay. So let me just make my notes so I don’t forget what I’m coming back to. All right. There. So we essentially the two most common stories of someone starting a business is kind of the one you mentioned where you kind of you’re in school or just coming out of school. You want to make a buck, help some people work hard. Yeah. Starts with a lawnmower, sometimes in the back of a pickup, sometimes in the back of a civic. Never have I ever heard in a robo.

Kurt LaButte (06:01.29)
You

Rob – Intrigue Media (06:02.196)
So, so would you just, just help us like understand grass, what the heck you’re talking about.

Kurt LaButte (06:07.559)
Yes, literally a rowboat. know what saying? Yeah, so, yeah, so we, you know, in our area, there’s a lot of little, they call it chain of lakes. So there’s small little inland lakes and that’s, you know, so connected by a small river system. So we can, you know, we could get up and down the rivers and get up and down the lakes to get around our clients. So literally we just put our, put our mowers and lead whips and things in rowboats and we’d get around, you know what I’m saying? It easier and quicker. Yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (06:09.194)
No, I get what you’re saying, but like, what do you mean you’re using a robot to get your business?

Rob – Intrigue Media (06:30.38)
And so like these days we were talking about robots, not robotes.

Kurt LaButte (06:36.075)
Yeah, I’m dating myself. Yeah, thanks.

Rob – Intrigue Media (06:41.045)
No, it’s amazing though. So just a quick aside and not to go into, but have you guys looked at or invested in or used at all any robotic mowing or any robotic machinery yet? Okay.

Kurt LaButte (06:49.533)
We have not. Yeah, we have not done that. I hear a lot about it. actually talking with other peer group members. I’m in a peer group and some of them have dabbled in it. yeah, it interests me, but we have not personally done it.

Rob – Intrigue Media (07:04.66)
All I’m saying is the second the first one runs, you can write a book from robot to robots and it’s going to be awesome.

Kurt LaButte (07:08.619)
Yeah, really, I better take my notes on that one. That’s a good one. Yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (07:11.948)
Seriously, it’s amazing. All right. So the question, and I’ve got a bunch here to come back to already, but the question of the show is what’s the primary growth constraint holding entrepreneurs back in the green industry from your perspective?

Kurt LaButte (07:28.01)
Honestly, I’d probably say in this case would have been myself. You know what saying? Just getting in the way. mean, to give you a little bit of backstory, I want to go back a little bit to not avoid the question, but we obviously grew the business. You know what saying? And we got close to $10 million. And we were very one dimensional. We were heavy in construction, hydro seating, things like that. And then the recession hit. So we were a new build. We needed a new build. We were in a high growth area. so back in 08, 09, things started tanking in our area.

And so really what happened was is we went from $10 million down to $4 million. You know what saying? So I mean, just about bankrupt us. And unfortunately, I tragically lost my brother during that downturn. what happened was, so back to your question, how did you do this? So I wasn’t computers. Everything was relying on old systems, processes, touching and feeling, everything personally.

Rob – Intrigue Media (08:06.09)
Yeah.

Kurt LaButte (08:24.33)
That was the beginning of where we were going. We assembled leadership team, we diversified, we added new services. I was able to try to learn to get out of the way, you know, give people autonomy and grow those types of things. so really, you know, and I contribute what was the piece of the success or how did we do it was learning new things, man. I was, you know, an older dog didn’t want to learn, right? I mean, it was all pen and paper. And so that really was the beginning in 2010, 11 to just

move us forward and I needed people, right? I needed staff and I needed to get out of the way, you know what saying? So I was the bottleneck. So that was probably the biggest constraint, I think, is as owners, you need to learn how to adapt systems, bring in processes and give people ability to manage and run their areas. so that’s really what I feel like was a huge change for us to be able to do that.

Rob – Intrigue Media (09:17.644)
Yeah, it’s a big deal. And it’s really interesting as I’ve been doing this podcast over the years, um, the most successful, and I know you probably have a hard time hearing that you might be categorized like that. Um, but the most successful entrepreneurs all answered the same way. Uh, now what’s interesting though, is they all have unique perspective on it. And so I’d love to take a moment to just understand. There was something you mentioned there about like, first of all, you guys got, you know, punched in the teeth, kicked in the nuts.

Kurt LaButte (09:33.427)
Does it?

Rob – Intrigue Media (09:47.245)
slapped upside the head all at once thrown into a river, um, it’s going from 10 to four. I mean, that’s a, and then to start to come back from that, not, not only, not to mention the fact of losing someone so close to you. mean, that that’s just, uh, almost insurmountable kind of situation when here you are. So when, when was it that gave you, what was it, when was it, and what was it that gave you that aha, that like you’re the bottleneck. And if everything keeps flowing through Kurt,

and it’s not going to go well.

Kurt LaButte (10:18.825)
Probably on the way, on the regrowth, I had no time, I had nothing. I set it up to where I needed to know everything, but then I realized that I had zero free time. I had young five kids, five kids that were needing a wife, was like the work-life balance was just crazy upside down. It took us a while to grow through that, build through that.

You know, probably five years after all this happened, you know what saying? We were growing and I realized like this isn’t going to work. I need to learn technology, which I’m not great at, but trust me, I’m a lot better today than I was back then. You know, I need to bring in systems and I need to bring in help and quit trying to micromanage everything. You know what saying? So that was probably the piece of it, you know, that helped.

And then I started to realize that I did. My kids now were growing up, right? And they were showing interest in the business. from that point on, guess we were talking and discussing about going on to a second generation. So that, at that point, was very much a goal, was to go on to the second generation. So it started to allow you to just take different paths and learn.

You know from whatever we’re doing marketing all these different things, know I’m saying it was just changing so fast and so that’s Yeah, I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but that’s kind of what comes to mind

Rob – Intrigue Media (11:44.641)
No, you, well, for sure. I mean, a couple of things that to kind of tease out of that, one of them was, you know, like, I had to learn and, a lot better to tell you that it was before. And you mentioned earlier, like old dog didn’t want to learn new tricks. So it seemed like at some point you made it, you made a choice essentially that learning was necessary, whether you wanted to do it or not. knew you had to.

Kurt LaButte (12:09.21)
Absolutely. Yeah, and we you started reading books and and you know watching you know back then I wasn’t podcast but you know you start watching videos or CDs or whatever it is anything to try to up your scales of business and learn things I guess in late 12 early 13. I joined a peer group So that was probably a big piece of some of our growth. You know, I mean, you know, I’m man I wasn’t

We didn’t know numbers, we didn’t follow all the margins and costs and all the different things of what we do and why we do it. So that was just a real eye opener. So really, I I always say it of got down to my jammies. I kind of forgot what I did know and realized I need to learn everything and then started letting it all pour through me. And that’s kind of how we started to grow is just forget about what I know, drop the attitudes, drop.

I can’t be told anything. Probably did more listening than talking and it just started to work for us, you know what saying? So that’s…

Rob – Intrigue Media (13:06.38)
Yeah, it’s amazing. Well, I mean, there’s, there’s a slice of humble pie that was obviously eaten at some point, maybe a couple, um, where you started saying things like, you know, stop being a place that someone can’t tell me what’s up, start learning, having a flow through me. Um, yeah, that really seems like a big attitudinal shift.

Kurt LaButte (13:25.681)
Totally. Yeah, because we were, and I was not a, I say a dictatorship. You know, it was like, it was our way or the highway. I’d be honest with you. We were probably, yeah. And now I feel like I’m very open and very,

Rob – Intrigue Media (13:33.75)
So you’re a benevolent dictator.

Kurt LaButte (13:39.271)
you know, calm and relaxed and, and, and, you know, I think that really allowed us to grow because then people felt comfortable, right? They, you know, felt like making a mistake was okay. You know what saying? As long as we’re learning from it, make the same one over and over again. We got a little bit of a problem, right? But it just seemed to, it seemed to work, you know, so that was the, that was more of the mindset, the shift, you know, where everyone’s in a learning process around here. And, you know, we’re willing to be wrong, right? And then, that’s, that’s what helped.

Rob – Intrigue Media (14:06.816)
Well, it’s seemingly counterintuitive to folks who are trying to will their way to growth. So, you know, we know a lot of folks and we see this a lot, right? So it’s like we have the opportunity of working with landscape entrepreneurs at all levels, whether it’s just brand new startup, know, under 500K million, million and half, three, five, 10, 20, 50, whatever. And a lot of folks that are like, say,

1.5 or under are really just like, it’s got it, got it, do this thing. And then the people that are like 10 plus are like, oh, that’s cool. We’ll all do it together. And they take time to think about things and hear people out and they kind of slow down to speed up. And they say these weird, um, like truisms and they understand them. Cause like, I used to hear stuff like that and I’m like, slow down to speed up. doesn’t make any sense. But then I realized it’s like a slingshot. You take the time to understand everything, the context around it, communicate it. You all go farther together. If you want to go fast, go low. If you want to go far, go to.

Kurt LaButte (14:45.35)
You

Rob – Intrigue Media (15:05.44)
go together. And so it’s almost counterintuitive to the folks that don’t see it yet that like, easing up actually provides an environment for growth for others, which then creates an environment of growth for the business. And so I just wondering if you could help people understand what that transition looks like when you decided, okay, you know what, I’m directing, you know, maybe not dictator, but I’m more of a directive. This is what we’re to do. This is how we’re going to do it. Okay, go.

to a bit more facilitative. If I’m that person that wants to make that transition, what are some of the things that either you did or they might be able to do to get there?

Kurt LaButte (15:44.228)
Yeah, I would say, you know, share the numbers and share the goal. You know what saying? I mean, if everyone has an idea of the goal, what is the objective? What is the why? And if everyone understands that, and then listen, you know what saying? Because, you know, I think people bring a lot to the table and value, but I really feel that if someone understands what the goal is and why we need to do this or why we want to do this, they will, A, work harder, faster and better for it.

and then allow them to think along the way. You know what saying? I feel like that is, you know, we share our numbers, right? You know what saying? So I our leadership team, we talk about it. We’re already into budgeting for next year. We’re already into our goals. So I feel that that is really important. And I know it might seem, you know, different for someone who’s at 500K versus someone that’s at 5 million, but I feel the principles are very much the same. You know, I mean, if people truly know what we’re trying to accomplish.

And if that’s a two person team or a 200 person team, it doesn’t matter. really feel like if everyone understands the goal and the why, and in a sense, what’s in it for them, whether it be a safety rating or a profitability or whatever the goal is, the metric, you know, I feel that that helps. Right. And then you do have to measure it along the way. You know what I’m saying? I mean, it’s like, you know, you don’t get to the end of the football game and find out who won or not. Your scores, right? There’s talks along the way. And I feel like that’s important. And I think sometimes companies don’t talk enough. They don’t share enough and they don’t

have people help and contribute to the goal because maybe they don’t understand the goal or know the goal. And I feel like, you know, sharing more, talking more and explaining more. Yeah, I feel they’re really beneficial. You know, you got to have those little tailgate meetings to make sure everyone’s on the same page. And then, you know, then you move forward as a group or as a team.

Rob – Intrigue Media (17:26.656)
Yeah, that’s amazing. And so there’s a couple of pieces from there. And this is like, if we were to go super tactical and you go from like a closed off organization, leadership culture to this fully open sharing, talking, tailgate, reinforcing clarity of purpose, clarity of vision, clarity of goal. What’s one thing someone’s like, look, I want to do it. What’s one thing I do today to start?

Kurt LaButte (17:54.869)
that’s a good question. I guess it depends on where they are in the organization or what, but I mean, I, yeah, I would say, you know, it’d be open and be truthful. You know what saying? That would be the probably one thing, you know, I mean, you have to be, you know, open and truthful and honest with, with what do you want? You know, what is their goal? You know saying? I mean, to flip it around. It’s like, what is, what is their goal? What are they, what is their objective out of this? Because, you know, sometimes

Rob – Intrigue Media (18:01.846)
Talk to the owners, talk to the entrepreneurs,

Kurt LaButte (18:23.416)
You know, we dictators say, hey, let’s go do it like this. you know, we like to start off with, what do they want out of this? You know, what is their ultimate goal? What positions do they want? Or what do they want to see out of this? What is their career path? And I feel sometimes that helps curtail a direction, you know, that you can work together.

Rob – Intrigue Media (18:41.452)
Sure. So in terms of opening up the dialogue with staff to help them under, to help them tell you what they’re looking for and just listen and see if the organization creates an environment to help them grow their thing.

Kurt LaButte (18:48.281)
Sure.

Absolutely, it’s a good fit. mean, and everyone wants to be happy, right? Everyone wants to enjoy what they do. And, you know, I feel like sometimes, you know, maybe they’re just in the wrong spot or the wrong, the goal or maybe maybe we’re trying to have them do something that they’re not. I mean, it’s like to have someone that’s not into working outside be in the field, it’s not going to work well, they’re very long, right? You know.

Rob – Intrigue Media (19:11.166)
Not very long.

Kurt LaButte (19:12.889)
And it is funny, you you talk about, we have a lot of different people in this company that come with degrees in environmental or business or other things, and they end up doing other things in the company. It’s crazy. Like they go to school and they’ll come with this degree and what they want. Next thing you know, five years later, they’re somewhere totally in a different spot of the company doing something totally different than they were educated in. And it’s because we listened to them and they were exposed to other things. know, it’s like, I think it’s important for, you know, like co-op situations through the schools or, you know, trade schools.

Rob – Intrigue Media (19:29.428)
and pumped.

Kurt LaButte (19:42.682)
different things to like expose people to it because it’s like you know not everyone gets these life experiences and then gets to pivot you know at a place either you know so and that’s just what we found you know it’s crazy I’m gonna need different people take different paths right

Rob – Intrigue Media (19:51.147)
Yes.

Rob – Intrigue Media (19:54.733)
And if we don’t listen, there’s no way we can know where they’re going to go. And they might not even have an opportunity to know unless they get an opportunity to think about it. And as, and as leaders kind of, I to your point, we can provide them a platform to start thinking maybe a little bit differently on how they might be able to grow themselves and inside the organization. so what if, so if we’re talking to the owners and we’re saying, okay, be a bit more truthful with what you want and communicate clearly what you’re trying to accomplish. you know, I’ve heard some folks and by some, mean a lot.

Kurt LaButte (19:58.073)
Sure.

Kurt LaButte (20:02.06)
Totally.

Kurt LaButte (20:10.218)
Absolutely.

Rob – Intrigue Media (20:24.908)
They’re like, you know, I want a really nice house with a nice boat and I want my business to be $10 million so I can have a really nice house and really nice boat. That doesn’t usually inspire alignment. so I think, but I think it’s important people are true to themselves in trying to figure out what they’re trying to accomplish. Um, when you were communicating with your team, as you started to really ratchet up past 10 million, what were some of the goals and the reasons why you were

building this organization that you would share to help people understand that, you know, maybe that selfish orientation is great as like a product or a result, but as an organization of humans trying to do something, there’s usually maybe something else that people need to grab onto.

Kurt LaButte (21:06.433)
Yeah, I was, you know, when we were doing it, of course, when we were growing press 10 million and on, you know, obviously I was getting older and.

You know, had teams or people, team members that have been with us for 20, 30 years at that point. So my biggest thing was, is announcing that, you know, I don’t want to go anywhere. You know what saying? I might step down as CEO, you know, but, you know, I want to be on the board. I want to be a part of it as we continue to grow. But our biggest thing is, is that’s what I wanted. I wanted to go to second generation. So I was very intentional on what do they want? You know, what is my leadership team? What are the people that I’m connected with all the time? What do they want out of it?

Some of them wanted their kids to join the company, which we have. We have now second generation kids, know, people that are here. We wanted people to retire out, you know what saying? So, and how do they want to retire? You know what saying? So we were very intentional on trying to listen to what their goals were, what they wanted out of it. You know, some wanted additional education, some wanted to transfer to a different spot. We’ve opened up different branches. They wanted to move their families north, you know what saying? And work out of those branches. So we were very intentional about listening to that, but you know, we all

wanted to make sure that people had a path to retire and it wasn’t just hit the end and go right so you know we have them it’s maybe someone we have one right now that’s working part-time and is traveling to help us transitions you know grow in the northern branches so it was it allowed then you guys give me what I want which is a second generation and to be a part of something as I’m getting older I can’t get more gray but you know to be able to do that right so give me my path for my fun and your path can then be laid out how you guys want and that’s that’s the goal of what we’re trying to

So I have people that are in their early 60s that are you know, two years three years one year six months away from their retirements You know, and then their goal is obviously to bring another generation up So they’re you know We have now their mentorships and they really have a lot of fun with it because it’s not as stressful for them And now they’re watching this young person grow and prosper Financially and they’re building their houses and their lives and their kids and their mentoring and so that’s really the excitement of the whole thing is is watching it go on to another generation

Kurt LaButte (23:13.552)
in front of our eyes and it’s not just me, you know, it’s them. They’re bringing up someone themselves to help coach and mentor. So that piece is really exciting. It’s like, you’d ask me this seven, eight, nine, 10 years ago, I would have said there’s no way, you know? But that’s what we’re trying to do. know, want to get to 50 million by 50 years, you know, is the goal.

Rob – Intrigue Media (23:15.795)
Yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (23:33.92)
Well, that’s definitely going to lay the foundation for generations. If you get there. Well, I know it’s really. Yeah.

Kurt LaButte (23:37.217)
Absolutely. And a lot of new people to join us. That’s been our mission is growth and autonomy. Years ago, was crazy hours and all this stuff. It’s a little bit more relaxed now. We’re all doing this for our families and our loved ones. That’s what it’s really all about. if you can’t have any freedom or any time, what’s the point? I feel like if you’d asked me 20 years ago, it’s like you can’t take a day off in the summer. That doesn’t work.

Rob – Intrigue Media (23:57.836)
What’s the point?

Kurt LaButte (24:07.194)
when you do take a day off or an afternoon or a long weekend, you know, or even a week, people step up. You’ve actually given them power. You’ve given them authority. You’ve given them an opportunity to learn and feel good about themselves, you know, by just stepping out of the way a little bit.

Rob – Intrigue Media (24:22.474)
Yeah, I’m well, I want to come back to in a as here we got there’s a lot. might be another episode in the making here, but. Okay. So what are the things that’s really interesting in the way you describe this? And I’m not sure if my summary of it is going to give it justice. So feel free to like correct me if I’m not getting the point. But what I hear a lot is the idea of like, there’s no I in team, but teams consist of individuals. So whether you, I don’t know, I don’t care how you shape it. A team.

Kurt LaButte (24:28.737)
You

Rob – Intrigue Media (24:52.01)
is by definition a bunch of individuals. And it sounds like what Todd Services has done has really focused on the individual across the entire team to figure out how you can make their life more enriched, more fulfilling. And then in doing so, you’ve created this like energy and momentum, where everybody’s trying to go towards their own thing, but it’s all together. And I don’t think a lot of people have really articulated that kind of approach before. I think it’s pretty amazing.

Kurt LaButte (25:15.873)
Totally. Yeah.

Kurt LaButte (25:20.577)
Well, now it’s the way it works for us. You go into our leadership meetings, which there’s like 10 or 11 people in there now, everyone knows each other’s goals. Everyone knows what we’re trying to do. So it’s fun. There’s no doubt about it. And everyone’s trying to get what they want on it. Not monetary, that’s not it.

Rob – Intrigue Media (25:24.47)
It’s awesome.

Rob – Intrigue Media (25:41.268)
no there’s all sorts of stuff to it

Kurt LaButte (25:42.993)
Freedoms whatever it is, you know I’m saying like there we talk about this stuff and even decisions corporately are made as a group You know, it’s not it’s not a me thing. It’s an us thing and know, trust me I’ve walked out of those meetings many times saying why in hell didn’t they like what I said, you know, and I got Vetoed out man. I was like it was shut down. It was left at the door and I’m out You know, it’s like I’m one vote. know what I’m saying? It’s not a it’s not a my way or the highway thing but years ago it probably would have been so I would say you know from

Recommendation or advice from someone listen to your people, you know They might always be right but but listen to them especially when you got five or six or four telling you something and you’re the only one thinking differently it I’m not saying they’re you’re always wrong, but you might want to take a second look at it, know Sam maybe there’s some common ground in there and You know try to align yourself with people that believe in what you

Rob – Intrigue Media (26:22.208)
Mm.

Kurt LaButte (26:33.312)
Believe in, whether it’s family or whatever it is. Family’s big around here. We have company dinners and the wives and the kids and all those types of things. They show up. It’s fun. I have a good time.

Rob – Intrigue Media (26:44.684)
Yeah, we’re building community kind of like by definition. It’s pretty amazing. so you, you, mentioned this time and time again, the idea of stepping out of the way, you know, as the, as the, the main bottleneck of the business, but then also, you know, a week in the summer so that can give somebody an opportunity to step up, give them authority, give an opportunity to learn. You know, I think if you look at say 2 million, two and a half million dollar revenue landscape business is probably the

Kurt LaButte (26:47.136)
Totally. Totally.

Rob – Intrigue Media (27:14.848)
There’s the most of them that I would consider are running a business. There’s, it’s not just completely dependent on them. They’ve got people in place. They’re still probably maybe too involved, but they’re, they’re building a business. but the idea of stepping away is like a little scary. I know one guy, was, was he told me story a couple of weeks ago and he was, he had planned a ski trip with his wife.

Um, I think without like with son’s kids, this was like a big deal. Cause they’re like, kids are going to be with grandparents or something to that effect. And two days before they were going to fly across the country, huge snowstorm warning came in and like, you know, it’s like, we’re talking like three, four feet of snow, a couple of snow events, like at a time over the course of the next, seven, 10 business days or seven, 10 days. And he was just like, Oh man, like I can’t leave. And he got put in this position where it’s like, I’m going to go disappoint my wife.

I’m going to let down my team.” And he felt like he was between a rock and a hard place. Now I would say he made the right call. He went on the trip and then lo and behold, the team crashed. So that’s just one of many stories I get a chance to hear. But what do you say to the person who’s scared of leaving for a week in the summer?

Kurt LaButte (28:28.575)
You know, yeah, I mean, it’s easy said, you have to do it, you have to go, know, and, you know, in the big scheme of things at the end of your 120 years or whatever you live, right, you know what saying? That one week isn’t gonna, isn’t gonna make or break everything, you know, but when you’re building a business, it is tough, there’s no doubt. I mean, it’s easier for me to say that because I’m surrounded by staff, right? But I mean, there was a time that you were everything and I’m sure when you get to two and a half million, you probably have some support staff. You’re at one million and you don’t have a lot of help.

You’re busy, right? I mean, you’re everything. You’re selling, you’re fixing equipment, you’re running the office, you’re dealing with problems, you’re dealing with collections. Those are really tough because there’s probably not, sometimes not enough money to hire that person to help you. You know what I’m saying? And if growth is slow or capital is small, where you can’t go to that next level quick, it is tough. So I’m not saying you’re not gonna have times there that it’s gonna be just a fight, right? You might have a few years in there that it’s not fun, you know? But I do also feel like,

watch your numbers, follow your numbers. You know, can’t manage what you don’t measure. So my advice would be is make sure you know what you’re doing as far as numbers, get professional help or seek it out. You know what I’m saying? Join a peer group, read something, margins, different things, cost of goods, all those types of things, because to work so hard and then not make the money, that’s not worth it either. So at least if you feel like you have a manage on your numbers, you know where you’re going in.

At least then you’re making money along the way. So least if you do hit that dog day for a couple years, you know it’s not forever, right? The problem is, is you know, when you keep doing over over and over and expect a different outcome, right? Instead of what a definition of insanity or something. So it’s like, that’s the piece. So if you know that, I’m going to go for a growth. I’m going to try to get to 1.7 because when I get there, I’ll have extra money. I can have an ops person or can have sales. I can have someone else to assist me, but I just got to get part way there before I can afford it.

Rob – Intrigue Media (30:07.958)
Mm.

Kurt LaButte (30:24.017)
At least then know your numbers then you realize, if I increase sales by 20%, that’ll increase this. And then by then at the year two, I’ll have the money for that and then bring them on and then take yourself to the one seven. So that would be my advice is to try to learn the numbers and use those to your advantage. I didn’t do that years on in the early years. We didn’t understand it. We just worked and hoped that there was money in the account at the end of the year and then did it again and then realized, well, if we did this, maybe we can do a little bit more.

I wish I knew more about the numbers and the financial side of it early on because I think I would have, we probably would have never got caught like we did in 08 or 09. You know what saying? We would have went through that and we probably would have hit our plateau now and the growth could have been quicker. You know what I’m saying? even after 2010, I was still very foggy on numbers and margin and those types of things. I was coming on hard, I was learning it, but it was a little late. I was a late to the games. That would be my advice is,

Rob – Intrigue Media (31:02.41)
Right.

Kurt LaButte (31:22.642)
you know, learn those things early on, because I’ll tell you, it’ll save you time, it’ll save you effort, and you’ll make money to, you know, share and do whatever you’re do with, right?

Rob – Intrigue Media (31:33.196)
Yeah, that’s cool. Well, and the idea too, it’s like, even in the way you explained it, it’s like, it takes, don’t expect it to like learn it in a week. You know, understanding the financial model, the predictability in the business, profitability margins, overhead recovery, proper pricing as, you know, the cost of doing business raises. It’s a, it’s a practice. It’s not like a lesson.

Kurt LaButte (31:56.242)
Totally, yeah. And if they can, you know, they can attach themselves to other people in the industry, you know, we didn’t do that years on. In early years, it was, you know, like little trade secrets, hold it all now. It’s like this community helps and shares and works with one another. It’s like, I mean, if we had that type of friendships and camaraderie back then, it’s amazing. Just because you have competition there, that’s not your enemy. You know, I mean, it’s like good competition is great. You know, it’s like when you hear someone that understands the numbers and understands the math of it and the business of it,

Rob – Intrigue Media (32:09.367)
it’s

Kurt LaButte (32:26.034)
That’s perfect. You wish everyone had that. It’s the person that doesn’t understand it is the one that causes the problems, not the people that…

Rob – Intrigue Media (32:32.082)
It’s like, can you bid the $150,000 job for 50 grand? Like you just, killing everybody and yourself. Yeah.

Kurt LaButte (32:37.477)
And yourself, right? You’re the guy that’s wondering why you’re still at the same level 10 years in a row. You know what saying? Because you never can grow and you’re just working your butt off and you can’t afford to have help and you have no work-life balance and you just wear yourself down. You it’s like you only got so many good years, you know, but I do got to admit, there is times it’s hard. This business is not easy for everyone and it’s not all fun and games. You’re going to have some tough days in there. There’s no doubt you’re going to have people leave and…

Whatever it is, it’s going to hit you. There’s no doubt. how you prepare for it is what will get you through it. And positive attitude and keeping it simple is key, I think. Don’t overcomplicate it. But you got to have systems, got to have processes, and you have to have metrics. You got to have something to measure by.

Rob – Intrigue Media (33:07.594)
Yeah, it’s not if it’s when right?

Rob – Intrigue Media (33:27.624)
Yeah, well, I mean, it’s tough to understand how well you’re doing, even if your goal is to lose weight, if you’re not measuring it. And to your point, even any sports game, I mean, great game and business is a great resource. If anybody wants to check that one out, I’m going to bring that question up in a second, actually. But before I do, yeah, there’s definitely another episode in the future if you’re down, because I got a bunch of questions here, but there’s too many. But the one I want to ask, OK, so I hear a lot.

I’m going to take my business from 2 million to 10 million in next three years. I’m going to go from 6 million to 20 million in the next four years. You know, you’re 30 million, 46 years in. I think if you had done it over again, you probably could do it quicker, maybe faster, stronger, smarter, whatever. But can you just help people understand a little bit about like the value of time, patience.

Just the longevity on how it takes time to put a foothold into a marketplace with reputation and consistency. I just feel like there’s a lot of people trying to blow things up so fast and they think they can do it overnight.

Kurt LaButte (34:31.217)
Yeah.

Kurt LaButte (34:36.668)
Yeah, mean, I think brand is huge, right? know, think consistency is huge and those are two key words, but I also feel like, you know, do what you say, say what you do type of thing. And I feel like that has helped us, you know, I mean, we, we’ve, we’re fairly new into two Northern markets and, know, I mean, we’ve, the one we’ve been up there a year and a half, you know what saying? And, we’ll do

a little over five million out of that one market. You know what saying? It’s a year and a half old, you know? and, but it’s the brand, right? It’s three and a half hours from home for us. But, you know, it’s the 30 some years of branding that we’ve done, you know what saying? In Southern Michigan, that’s helped us allow us to get up there. So I really feel reputation is huge.

You don’t have a staff and team, you know, all those we had two branches up north. They’re both being ran by people that are from him home base. You know, I’m so the culture swing is up there. So I feel like that’s really important, you at least for us, for growth. So I would say if you’re going to do it, you know, obviously pricing has to be there. You need to be realistic on your goals. Maybe you need an acquisition or something to help you. But again, that takes capital, right? So it’s like, you know, how do you invest and do all that and take the gamble? But I really would say it’s you have to.

Rob – Intrigue Media (35:26.988)
Mm-hmm.

Kurt LaButte (35:47.897)
have to follow your dreams, which is one thing. starts with a vision and it starts with a dream, but it needs to mathematically make sense. know, so we always start with end in mind. So, you know, if you’re trying to get to this, how do you get there? You know, well, let’s see here. I need so many sales. I need so many jobs. I need so many leads. So therefore you better have a marketing plan. Right. So how do you, how do you get that phone or that email or whoever you’re to get your leads or referrals or whatever that is, need to have a plan for that and work it backwards to see if it all math makes sense. You just can’t say, I want to hit 20 million. You know what saying? Let’s just be ready to

It’s like it you got to figure it out in a way and if you do that you better You know think how does that work? You know from the phone calls to the problems to the hiring to the HR to whatever that is and Even at us at our size we we bump our heads on that sometimes You know, it’s like wow, I didn’t think of that or what if the jobs get smaller? That’s what happened to us this year, you know, our jobs have gotten smaller You know, therefore we got to we got to amp it up, right? You more leads to get more sales to generate that machine So you better be ready to make that happen if not, you know, you’re not

able to hit it. Therefore, we would never know if we weren’t measuring, you know, what we’re trying to manage.

Rob – Intrigue Media (36:54.44)
Yeah, I mean, it’s a brilliant perspective too, because if you that’s just a great example of a very successful business doing really good, doing very well. And if you have a thousand customers and the plan is for all of them to spend 20 grand, but they all end up spending 17.5, if you’re not looking at it as you go, the end of the year gets pretty sobering. Well, this has been amazing. Quick drop, peer group. You mentioned it more than once. Please let people understand if they should check it out where they should look.

Kurt LaButte (37:13.818)
Absolutely,

Kurt LaButte (37:24.122)
Yeah, it’s actually Jeffrey Scott consulting. So I’ve been with him ever since at late 12, I late 12 or early 13, I joined. It’s been great, you know what saying? mean, so it’s, you know, like type, size, shape.

Industries different thing, you so it’s really construction of landscape design build maintenance You know those types of things exactly what we do and then you’ve pairs you up with companies, know across the country And it’s been great, you know, it’s like we have little groups. We get together twice a year You share financial stories good bad all the ugly, know those types of things and um, you know kind of you know, as far as it was me I lost a partner. I lost a brother, you know I’m saying so, you know, that was my click right we’d share stories we go through at all and you know, it’s hard to talk openly sometimes to the people

that are you know in your staff and so forth to do that so it was a great time to you know get with people and you’re all you’re there you would never pay the money to join you never spend the time and invest to do it if you weren’t trying to grow or get better so you’re really you’re lining yourself with people that are

trying to do more, trying to do better, and you have something in common, right? And so they do a good job of matching you up with other companies like you and your personalities and different things. And you’re talking, whatever, every six weeks or two months, and get together in person a couple times, and you get to go through their facilities and then see what’s working and what’s not, and those types of things.

Rob – Intrigue Media (38:46.508)
I love it. Yeah, we were just at the summer summit. Yeah, just what an amazing group of people. And I mean, there’s that Jim Rohn thing, right? Like you are the average of the five people you hang out with most. I think they do a really good job in terms of bringing the best together. So I think peer group is definitely a big one for people to check out. You mentioned the idea of learning lots. So book, author, speaker, resource, you think someone should check out?

Kurt LaButte (38:50.456)
Yeah, yeah, it’s great, great function.

Kurt LaButte (39:06.916)
Totally.

Kurt LaButte (39:16.73)
Yeah, Simon Sinek. I like a lot of his stuff. You know, he’s kind of someone I’d listen to and follow. We read some of his books. You know, we’re in a process. I don’t remember the author. It’s an AI.

I’m leadership. I’m drawing a blank on the name. It’s in my phone here under audio So that one’s good. It’s just an area that I’m trying to learn more about you know I’m saying so it’s kind of the next goal is to learn more on the whole AI thing you know we’re doing some of it with the company, just to You know get better of it in the groups. They read books all the time You know we do two or three you know the session or whatever something that’s interesting much I never did in my younger years I you know wasn’t a fan of it all you know so I enjoy listening to the books when I’m on the road or traveling and stuff so it’s good

So yeah, always always trying to learn. You know what saying? I mean, it’s easier said than done, right? But it’s like, man, there’s so much out there and it’s so easy. Everything’s at your fingertips right now. And guess what? It’s there for your clients, too. So if you think you’re not, you know, you’re not learning, they are. And I’ll tell you, better you better be ready because I’ll tell you that you get out in front of these clients and these customers. And a lot of times they ask the question, they know the answer. They’re trying to test you if you do. So it’s not like it was back when I was younger. You know, you had an encyclopedia or you went to the library to learn something. So

Rob – Intrigue Media (39:57.834)
Yeah, that’s cool.

Rob – Intrigue Media (40:12.128)
Yeah.

Kurt LaButte (40:27.707)
If you sounded better about it, you could probably pull your way through it, but you better not try that anymore. You’re better off to, I don’t know it. I better go look it up or ask someone because they probably know the answer.

Rob – Intrigue Media (40:37.792)
very well informed customer base. doesn’t matter what industry you’re in really, right? Like it’s amazing.

Kurt LaButte (40:41.251)
Totally. I mean, everything’s at your fingertips right now. So. Well, I appreciate you. Yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (40:44.396)
Well, Kurt LaBeute, your beauty. And I appreciate this. Yeah, that was awesome. Everybody will put the resources in the summary. Appreciate listening to another episode of the I Am Landscape Growth podcast. Kurt, thanks again for doing this, man. I really appreciate you sharing.

Kurt LaButte (41:00.227)
Super, I appreciate you. Thank you much.