Joe Salemi of Landscape Ontario on Why Landscapers Lose Jobs Before the Quote

Intrigue Media (00:31)
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the IM Landscape Growth Podcast. I think this is a second time guest. Pumped to have you back. got Joe Slemmy from Landscape Ontario, executive director and 20 plus years in the industry working with hundreds if not thousands of landscapers over the years. Pumped to have you on. Thanks for doing this again. Well, it’s cool because like, and I say this in a couple other episodes when we talk to like coaches and stuff like that.

Joe Salemi (00:48)
Yeah, thanks for having me. Really appreciate you having me back.

Intrigue Media (00:56)
But there is something I think the audience can really get from folks that have such a vast, like wide perspective of all the different landscape companies and with the time horizon that.

You probably can see patterns that are like, it’s the same problems guys. It’s the same thing. But anyway, we’ll get to that in a minute. ⁓ There’s way more people listening to this podcast than there was the first time we did it. So maybe you could just give us a quick little Coles notes of where you’ve come from and what you’re kind of focused on today.

Joe Salemi (01:14)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

Sure, thanks for

that. Yeah, in case you’re out there and you and I have not met, I’ve been connected to the landscape horticulture trades for about 23 years now. It seems kind of wild, but I got my start with the Canadian Nursery Landscape Association and spent 10 years there and just did absolutely everything from negotiating big kind of sponsorship deals with major manufacturers.

into government relations and meeting with federal ministers and working out grant opportunities and relief funds for nursery members and farms, all kinds of stuff. And then I got recruited out and went and ran a software company for eight years. Those in the industry might know it, a company called Dynascape, new landscape design.

software and business management software and had a really cool opportunity through them, walked them through an acquisition, know, private equity came in and purchased the company and walked them through that and stuck around for a couple of years and got recruited to come to Landscape Ontario and put my signature on this organization. yeah. Thank you.

Intrigue Media (02:34)
And we’re pumped to have you at the helm my friend I

know you might have said when you took it over that you had big shoes to fill but I think you’re killing it man

Joe Salemi (02:41)
Thank

you. You know, Tony DiGiovanni has been a mentor of mine for about the entire time that I’ve been connected to this incredible industry. And, you know, he wears giant shoes, but there’s, don’t think there’s anybody on the planet that could fill them. So, you know, I kind of have to wear my own and cut my own trail, but man, what an incredible human that guy is.

Intrigue Media (03:06)
Yeah, and you just reminded me, I gotta get him as a guest on the show. ⁓ Okay, so there’s a bunch we wanna talk about, but first, why don’t we just kinda give the audience what they’re looking for. What do you see across the industry right now that’s like holding people back? What’s going on? got a couple questions on the same line of thinking, but why don’t we just start with what you’re seeing and hearing from folks out in the field.

Joe Salemi (03:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, there’s a couple things.

you know, the economy, cost of living just isn’t doing any favors for anybody. There’s a conversation kind of in the background that a lot of business owners are having. like, well, my people are asking for more money and I don’t have more money to give them. you know, cost of groceries feels like it’s doubled in the last couple of years.

put food on the table is way more expensive. you know, those companies that are trying to be, you know, those ⁓ living wage kind of companies, and finding it really, really difficult to try and keep up. It seems to be a real race to the bottom to on ⁓ on small to mid market work. And that’s not doing anybody any favors, you know, in fact, it’s it’s it’s

making the homeowner really used to going with the cheapest quote and that’s not doing any good for anyone. And so, there’s the tough economy and just the immediate thinking that I have to be the lowest bid in order to get the work. I think.

Intrigue Media (04:30)
Yeah, mean, that’s that’s

that’ll kill some that will kill businesses and the economy piece like. Is that what you’re hearing or is that is it true?

Joe Salemi (04:40)
Well, I mean, we’re seeing it in membership numbers, right? Once the river of jobs and money stopped flowing with the pandemic, you know, we started to see things really tighten up and we’ve seen our membership numbers kind of start to tail off a little bit, right? Like we used to, over the pandemic, we added close to a thousand companies to join Landscape Ontario, right? There was companies coming out of the woodwork.

Intrigue Media (05:02)
huge.

Joe Salemi (05:05)
You know, guys were seeing that were working for other companies saying, well, I can do this and you know, I do great work. Why can’t I do this on my own? Technically, you know, incredibly skilled, but I’d never run a business. you know, guys were going out and buying $200,000 pickup trucks and brand new skid loaders and mini excavators and, you know, thinking they got the world, you know, in the palm of their hand.

And then the river of money just stopped flowing, right? All they had to do is stick their bucket out into the river and they’ve got all the jobs they needed for the season and can charge whatever they want. People were getting work done in a historic way. And when that river stopped, all of a sudden, you know, they still have the finance payments on that $200,000 pickup truck and all that equipment. And we saw businesses fold, declare bankruptcy and all that equipment and those pickup trucks all go to auction.

Intrigue Media (05:58)
Hey.

Joe Salemi (05:58)
Right? So it became a really difficult thing to watch. And our numbers told the story. Like we saw the dip in membership as a result.

Intrigue Media (06:06)
Yeah, well, it’s interesting too, because when you start a business in that type of environment, the pressure for learning how to sell is zero. And then all of a sudden things dry up and there’s no sales infrastructure in place. And it’s interesting because you alluded to a little bit of a story prior to this. We’re not going to name any names, but I’m also in the market for landscaping services.

and have reached out to a few folks and have heard nothing back or when I do I get I’ll come by next week sometime.

Joe Salemi (06:42)
Sometime. Yeah. Yeah.

Intrigue Media (06:43)
Okay, great. Would you

like me to be there to help walk you through? Can we do it over video? Maybe I could just show you now. And so I think the, I think there was one great, we had one guest on the show, James Halfield. He was talking about how Amazon has killed the customer because everybody wants everything now and easy. But it doesn’t seem like a lot of folks have.

Joe Salemi (06:47)
Okay.

Intrigue Media (07:01)
figured that out in this industry, which I think is a huge opportunity for people that can and people that have. And so I’d just love to get your take on the sales process and what’s going on in terms of what you’re hearing for people and follow up. Like we’re seeing lead response and lead follow up is classified as tragic. What do you guys?

Joe Salemi (07:20)
Yeah, yeah, it’s sad. It’s sad

really. I’ve got some firsthand experience in trying to reach out and you know, it’s not and I’ll share this with the audience, you know, here we are in the beginning of spring and I want to get some work done. And like, I’m not going to use the fact that I’m the executive director with Landscape Ontario to say, hey, look, I want to get some work done. Do you know who I am? First of all, that’s not who I’m about.

Intrigue Media (07:43)
Right. Right.

Joe Salemi (07:45)
⁓ but all what I’ll do is, go to their website and fill out their form. And I’m getting crickets like the, the, literally the easiest thing in the world to do is to follow up and, the, the ones that do in the companies and I’m seeing this, the companies that have the followup process built into what they do. These are the ones that are winning jobs, right? Often the company that responds first.

is typically the one that’s gonna get the work, right? There you go. So imagine this and for those of you that are ⁓ watching and listening.

Intrigue Media (08:11)
80 % of the time according to our research. 80%.

Joe Salemi (08:20)
you get an inquiry in and the sooner that you can reply just to say, thank you. I’ve got your request, I’ve got your inquiry. We’re gonna follow up with you in such and such amount of time. That immediately, immediately sets you apart from almost everybody else. Almost everybody else right away. I mean, the data says it right there. If only so many people are following up.

God, the biggest thing to do is to send a quick note and say, I got you and expect either a phone call or an email from me real soon and we’ll set up an appointment. That’s the biggest thing right there. I’m hearing it and I’m seeing it. you know, the companies that have professional processes set up in the very least that have a form set up on their website and that have someone that will get that as an email and that can follow up.

These are the ones that are winning jobs. And you know, I get it. There’s some companies that are either small enough or, you know, it’s really just the business owner who’s the operator with some help that just doesn’t have the capacity to deal with that. look, there’s, and I won’t go into all the tools, but there’s so many tools that are available now to do that for you. And it doesn’t even have to be a physical person, right? So.

Intrigue Media (09:30)
Well, I mean, and

it might sound a little daunting, but it isn’t in order to have it so that when someone fills out that form, the next page they see on the site is a booking link to schedule a call at a time that works for them that’s set by you.

And then there’s a call booked on the schedule. Anyways, there’s, saw I was, was doing the same thing like you trying to figure this out, not saying shit about who I am, not to say I’m anybody, but, but I feel like Jonah Hill and 40 year old Virgin holding a pair of shoes with goldfish in the heels at an eBay store saying, will you please take my money? Why can’t I buy? ⁓ yeah. And it’s really interesting you say that too, cause, a lot of folks we talk about think that they need to generate demand.

Joe Salemi (10:02)
Yeah. Yep.

Intrigue Media (10:10)
and capture, which is true, but the systems that are winning handle demand. So it’s that full, it’s not just the lead, it’s the follow-up, it’s the invoicing process, or the estimation process, it’s the quote process, it’s the whole piece. So, parlay that into this wonderful organization that…

you might know a little bit about is there an opportunity for sales training or this whole type of this part of the business for someone to come in and figure this out with Landscape Ontario?

Joe Salemi (10:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, look, so, we,

you know, we’re, now we’re in God today’s May. From November until kind of late April, Landscape Ontario runs the better part of 160 seminars. I think 40 of them are online. The rest of them are in person in Milton at our facility. And like we see call it 2300 people over that amount of time come through our facility to take.

seminar and they’re usually like one day full day seminars and we had a whole bunch on on sales and marketing and like business process Setup and that’s that’s good for Startup companies but ones that are very well established and just maybe not have their their sales model dialed in and it’s not like you know, we’ve got

⁓ Landscape Ontario staff that are doing the instruction on these seminars, we’re bringing in sales coaches, there’s very well established sales organizations that we’ve brought in to deliver these kinds of training opportunities and seminars. and it’s not expensive, and you get lunch in the middle, like we feed you on top of that.

Intrigue Media (11:52)
Yeah.

Joe Salemi (11:52)
There’s

no event that you’ll ever come to at Landscape Ontario that there won’t be food. That’s just part of our ethos. Totally. So yeah, there’s an incredible amount of opportunity through the association to ⁓ kind of bone up on these skills and then put some of these thoughts in your mind to say, maybe we need to start looking at this. And I get it. Life comes up and you see the opportunity and…

Intrigue Media (11:57)
Added bonus, yeah.

Joe Salemi (12:16)
think, okay, you know, I’ll look at that and then you never get around to it. And next thing you know, that seminar’s come and gone. It’s like, shoot, I really wish I would have taken that. Now I guess I have to wait till next year. And it’s out of your mind again. In the meantime, you still have this problem. You still have this gap in your process. you know, what do I do about that? And I think the biggest thing for anybody listening that wants to figure this out.

There’s so much available to you, resources. Do a quick search to do like automated sales follow-up through a website. like, I think you might even have a hard time trying to go through all of the resources, but start. I think the biggest thing to do is start.

Intrigue Media (13:02)
Yeah, that’s cool. Love that. So you’ve got a bunch of businesses that have started and now are having a hard time. The cost of living, there’s no question that has gone up. That’s just statistically valid. But you have a lack of sales professionalism in a lot of these smaller businesses. And now there’s this race to the bottom. So what is the kind of…

message or messages that you want to share with folks that may be experiencing some of this stuff.

Joe Salemi (13:27)
Yeah, I think, ⁓ you know, big part of what I’m seeing is, especially on the small market, mid market sector part, like the part of landscape is that it’s becoming really tough to win work and the economic conditions certainly aren’t helping that. You know, the cost of living has gone way up.

So racing to the bottom just to try and get work and keep your crews busy, I don’t think is a ⁓ sustainable way. It might just kind of postpone the inevitable. But what I’m seeing is that I’ll bid the work at the very minimum so I know that I’ll get it. But what it’s doing is training clients.

Intrigue Media (13:55)
Mm.

Joe Salemi (14:07)
to do that, to take what’s the cheapest, thinking that that’s the best that they’re gonna get. And it’s training the next generation of clients to only think, I’m only gonna go with the cheapest. But I think it’s not doing anybody any good. And on top of that, the business owners that are putting those quotes out, the struggle that they must be going through, I think, obviously is real.

And to be able to figure out, you know, where they need to be from a numbers perspective, I think that’s probably part of it, too. They just probably don’t have a solid understanding of, you know, what they where they even need to be in the neighborhood. I break even, let alone building in a profit to that work, which is, you know, sad and I think probably a whole nother discussion. But I think knowing that

Intrigue Media (14:39)
Mmm.

Joe Salemi (14:59)
there’s value in the work that we do and that people are willing to pay a reasonable price for the work. I think the people that try and put out the cheapest quote are worried that if they’re too expensive, the client’s gonna say no. So I think the shift has to go from price to quality.

and there’s a significant market here in Ontario, there’s a significant market of people that want quality work over cheap work and are willing to pay a little bit more to get really good work.

Intrigue Media (15:28)
Massive.

Yeah, I totally agree. And one of the things we talk to folks about, even just as a starting point, is at the very minimum, put a one year warranty on your work. And then if you come in at 16K and the other person comes in at 13K and they ask you, why are you more expensive? Is their warranty the same? Do they have a warranty on their work? We’re seeing some folks like, if quality is the thing, know, customer, everybody says quality.

But if you put a little bit of money where your mouth is and stand behind it, ⁓ that can be a really great way to differentiate in a quote unquote tight market.

Joe Salemi (16:07)
Yeah,

yeah, I’ll take it even a step further. So, you know, quality is one thing, but level of communication is another, right? So like, let’s say, you know, client does go ahead with your work, even before that, showing up to look at the property, you know, pre quote stage, hey, I’m gonna, I’m planning to come and see you at this time on this day. Just know that my day is really busy.

give or take or 20 minutes either before or after it gave me kind of a window and I promise I’ll be there or if something comes up like hey I’m supposed to meet with you in an hour an hour and a half but I know I’m going to be late or I know it’s not going to work in this time frame can we push it later or maybe even can I come earlier that level of communication builds so much trust before you even got to the quote stage how many times

when you’re going out to do sales calls and you’re a half hour 45 minutes or an hour late and then you just show up. It’s like, well, the time I had put aside to meet with you is now gone. I have to be somewhere. This doesn’t work anymore. And then they’re going to move that client, potential clients going to move on. Like, well, this company clearly didn’t care and respect my time.

Intrigue Media (17:07)
Mm.

They didn’t show up for the sale. How are they going to get the job done on time?

Joe Salemi (17:22)
Right. So

that that communication, I think, adds so much to the experience. it’s part of me thinks that business owners who miss the mark miss out on what the experience should be through the entire process. And like we talk about sales and follow up. That’s one thing. But I think the communication through that the whole way is can be a deal breaker.

And you know, that just sets a vibe. Yeah, absolutely it could be. Yeah.

Intrigue Media (17:48)
And a deal winner. And a deal winner. That customer

experience can be the differentiator. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So then what’s going on at the association? Not only with you guys, like, you know, there’s people all over North America listening to this. So, you know, give yourself a little bit of credit because you guys are definitely looked up with high regard across the entire industry. So what’s going on at Landscape Ontario or in associations that people should know about?

Joe Salemi (17:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah. So we’re, we’re totally rethinking how we, we train and help landscape businesses and their people level up. Right? Like we have this whole professional development series, which has always been great. You know, like I mentioned, we do 160 some odd seminars in the, the course of, you know, a few months. But we’re totally given that a rethought. And how do we.

in a much bigger way. Because imagine, you know, in the latest report that we’ve seen, there’s just shy of 10,000 landscape businesses in Ontario, and it makes up almost 40,000 people, right? 40,000 employees across the province. That’s nothing to shake a stick at. That’s a big, total addressable market for anybody that’s looking to connect with landscape companies. And so how do we, as Landscape Ontario, the voice of the industry, how do we connect

Intrigue Media (18:53)
All right.

Joe Salemi (19:10)
with the majority of these 40,000 people. Cause every single one of them are in the industry for a reason, whatever that reason is, and every single one of them at some point could use some training. Right? so we’re, we’ve embarked on probably the single largest investment that an industry could make in order to bolster its ability to train the entire industry. And so we’re in the middle of that right now.

Intrigue Media (19:21)
Absolutely.

Joe Salemi (19:37)
⁓ rehauling the entire program, but we’re also building a facility in Milton to handle in scale training. Like we’re expecting when this facility is done to put close to at peak to put close to 5,000 people a year through training. You know, we, ⁓ we thought, ⁓ you know, landscape Ontario does great stuff and a lot of it is, is leading edge.

Intrigue Media (19:54)
Epic.

Joe Salemi (20:03)
But as we were building out our strategic plan, you know, through the better part of 2024, we’re like, what’s going to be our moonshot? You know, and what’s, if we’re going to think really big and if we’re going to play some really big bets, what’s the biggest bet that we could probably could put on? And, you know, we came across an opportunity with the provincial government. There’s a grant that funds half of a capital infrastructure project for training.

organizations and trade associations. And on a hope and a prayer, we put an application together for this grant, which was no easy feat, know, putting a grant application together for a building. You know, we had to have a class D budget. So we had to go through the whole design process. We had to figure out what we wanted just to put this grant in and to get all these plans done and to bring everybody together. This grant cost us 70,000 bucks.

Intrigue Media (20:52)
Great.

Joe Salemi (20:59)
just to put together, just to apply without a guarantee that we were gonna get this thing.

Intrigue Media (21:03)
And that doesn’t even include the time.

Joe Salemi (21:05)
Oh God, no, absolutely not. you know, there’s, think we spent the better part of four months putting this grant application together. And, uh, and so on a, on a hope and a prayer, I mean, some really, really good people were brought together, uh, really intelligent people to put this grant together. It’s grant application. And, um, when you know it, call it about a year later, we found, we got the call to say we got, got it approved. And, um, so amazing news.

Intrigue Media (21:06)
You

Whoa!

Joe Salemi (21:35)
And like we built this all into our strategic plan, not knowing if we’re going to get this thing or not. So, you know, if I, if I say, you know, as one of the pillars in our strategic plan is, ⁓ is big bets. This is as big of a bet as anybody could have ever imagined. And, you know, with some, with some, you know, educated bet, you know, lots of, lots of work in the background, but, holy man. there was a lot of sleepless nights.

having put this much effort and changing our strategic direction to go this way and not know for sure if we were gonna get this thing. And doesn’t it come through? And the funny story about how it came through, so my son plays baseball and I was coaching and there’s seven year olds that are out in the field and I’m out in the field as a coach. And doesn’t my phone ring? And it’s the minister of labor calling me.

So when he calls, I’m take his call. So Mr. Puccini, when you’re out there, just know if you call, I’m gonna answer. We’re out in the middle of the field and I answer the phone. He’s telling me that we’ve been approved for a massive budget and I’m jumping up and down. Like I just hit a grand slam, right? Parents and kids have no idea what the heck’s going on. And like I’m losing my mind. I can’t explain to kids, know, oh, you know, we’re getting this grant and it’s gonna…

Intrigue Media (22:28)
That might be one worthwhile.

Who won the World Series?

Joe Salemi (22:54)
They have no idea. Right. So

Intrigue Media (22:54)
They’re who’s Grant?

Joe Salemi (22:58)
it is probably the funniest best story connected to coaching baseball that I’ll remember. And then, you know, we’re embargoed at the time not to let anybody know about this because, know, they don’t want to until there’s an announcement, they don’t want anybody to know. And so I can’t really say anything. I let our team know. I let our board know.

Intrigue Media (23:03)
Yeah.

Joe Salemi (23:17)
but now the journey starts, right? So we got building and here we are May the first and we’ve got structural steel put up. You know, we’re starting to see this thing take shape. So here’s the, you know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll do this. The first, the first invitation to everybody listening and to you, sir, if as soon as this thing’s ready, you know, by this time next year, we’re going to be in it, but at the open house.

We want as many people there to kick this thing off as possible, so we’ll have a big party ⁓ probably March 27. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Thank you.

Intrigue Media (23:46)
Yeah, awesome. Sick. Well, I mean, we’ll be there with bells on. So I think it’s really interesting. Like, first of all, congratulations. That’s a huge endeavor

and a big bet. So, you know, the risk on the table, like if this thing doesn’t go through, I can only imagine would be stressful. But what’s really interesting is that on this show, interviewing over a hundred, you know, entrepreneurs and association directors, whatever.

the most successful folks in the industry all view their businesses as training and development companies that just happen to do landscape work. So the fact that you guys have invested in training, I think it just is so beautiful to align with giving the industry an opportunity to be more successful.

Joe Salemi (24:22)
I’m happy.

Yeah, yeah. And

you know, we’re, ⁓ having lots of conversations with contractors about, know, what kind of training they might expect out of, ⁓ out of landscape Ontario, now that we have this facility or we’re going to have it. And, you know, conversations like, well, it’d be really incredible in leading into the spring, like coming out of the snow season and into spring, if I could send some of my people to get like a spring training session, a lot like they do a lot like the Blue Jays do in Dunedin, you know, they go and.

Intrigue Media (25:02)
Right, yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Joe Salemi (25:03)
tune up and so could Landscape Ontario offer like a spring tune up course where we could send our crews for a week or two and just kind of go through all the fundamentals because it’s something that these companies invest in anyway, right? But imagine we did it on a much bigger scale and had everybody in Milton in order to do that. So that’s probably one of the first things that we’re going to do is offer spring training at Landscape Ontario ⁓ as an offering.

Intrigue Media (25:31)
Gary Jerseys. Yeah.

Joe Salemi (25:32)
Right? You know? Yeah. Thank you.

Intrigue Media (25:35)
that’s sweet, man. I’m really excited for you guys and to see what’s gonna happen for anybody that takes advantage of the opportunity in front of them. And I just think it is something that can’t be repeated or echoed enough. Training and developing your teams, yourself as a leader, your teams.

⁓ It’s probably one of the most impactful levers someone can pull on in order to create a strong business So if you’re listening take advantage of the training whether it’s in landscape Ontario or any association ⁓ across North America So

Joe Salemi (26:05)
poorly.

Yeah, but imagine

that though. So what that does to your culture, right? By saying to your people as a leader, you know, we’re going to invest in you and you you may not stay with us for your entire career, but while you’re here and while you’re a contributing member of our team, we’re going to invest in you and we’re going to make you as good as you possibly could be and, you know, level you up and, you know, we see potential in you.

If you decide to leave, know, that things happen, life happens. But in the moment, the connection that’s made for that person working at that company becomes stronger than anything. And the build out of of culture at that point as a leader, I don’t know if there’s any single bigger culture builder that you could do that rivals investing in your people.

Intrigue Media (26:37)
It happens.

Well, I-

couldn’t agree more. And we just experienced this firsthand. You know, we’re hiring for a head of results right now and a bunch of great candidates coming through to kind of like, you know, get through to the, you know, case study and like formal interview process. And one of them was referred to as from a past team member from like eight years ago who was invested in tons.

Had nothing but awesome things to say about us ended up moving on, you know, they went to another organization all good. We still love them But that even that just it comes back Like one person left and another person’s coming in because of it. So it’s just it’s not just a one-way street

Joe Salemi (27:42)
Absolutely not.

Intrigue Media (27:43)
So we talked a little bit about challenges. We talked about the association, this opportunity to build this epic facility that’s probably gonna be like a North American kind of like, you know, pinnacle of like what can be done. What do we see right now across the board as opportunities that people are like excited about in the industry with this season in 2026? Like what are people saying is going well?

Joe Salemi (28:05)
The biggest thing, I think the biggest opportunity for our industry, not just in Ontario, but I think across the board is ⁓ storm water management. there’s a everywhere, we look at downtown Toronto and whenever we get massive rains, just how fast the Don Valley Parkway floods, right? when the…

Intrigue Media (28:25)
Yeah, it turns into a river.

Joe Salemi (28:27)
Yeah. And so when that, when that Don river, um, overflows, it’s going to people’s basements. Right. And so across, across the board, across the board, across the province. Uh, and when we talked to, when I have conversations with, um, landscape business owners in the United States, across the country, uh, everybody’s worried about stormwater. And, uh, I think the more that, um, companies embrace how to mitigate.

Intrigue Media (28:36)
Legitimately.

Joe Salemi (28:57)
stormwater through nature-based solutions like rain gardens, which as soon as we talk about rain gardens, some municipalities have property tax incentives to install rain gardens. Right? So how about that as an opportunity for landscape companies to really jump onto and install rain gardens for your clients? First of all, they can look really good and they add a lot of function.

Intrigue Media (29:10)
Epic.

Joe Salemi (29:25)
They pull water away from the house. you know, it gets, it mitigates that flooding opportunity. And there’s meaningful work behind that. like, imagine how your crew is gonna respond and the people that are doing this work to say, okay, you know, we’re going from, you know, focusing on the aesthetic and giving people an outdoor living space and improving their environment to really.

looking at sustainable nature-based solutions that will really have a positive impact to the environment everywhere around us.

Intrigue Media (29:58)
⁓ and talk about a point of difference when you’re talking to a customer that wants to get a job done. you? That’s awesome. And I think this is just a peek into how valuable an association with Landscape Ontario and across the board are, because you guys are looking at things differently than the average entrepreneur. So this whole idea of stormwater management and rain gardens and the incentives from municipalities to get, you know, for property taxes, like how many people, no one’s talking about that.

Joe Salemi (30:25)
No, no absolutely not. you know City of Ottawa they’ve got this and they’ve taken the program from us. We’ve built out this program and in Ottawa they call it the Rain Ready program. In York Region, Peel Region they’ve got these programs. We’re working on it with the City of Toronto. Last year the mayor came out with a stormwater tax you know if you

If you weren’t doing things around your house to keep all your stormwater, you’re going to get this big tax bill connected to your property tax. And she pulled it back two days later because of how much, how much blowback there was. So we followed up and said, Hey, you know, we built up this program with other municipalities in other regions. You might want to look at it and it’s, it offers a carrot, not a stick. And, you know, I actually offers a financial incentive if you install a rain garden.

Intrigue Media (31:07)
Right.

Joe Salemi (31:13)
And, you know, with rain gardens and infiltration pits, you can capture a lot of stormwater. So, you know, the City of Toronto is evaluating our proposal to them. And, you know, we know that when the City of Toronto does something that a lot of other municipalities are going to follow suit. And we saw it when we had to fight off a proposed ban on two-stroke engines. Like, imagine this, the city, in the City of Toronto.

They were looking at banning two-stroke engines. So we said to them, you know, maybe that’s not the way you want to look at this. In fact, maybe you want to study it. So they commissioned us to do the study where we evaluated commercial battery powered equipment and just how impactful it would be if there was a ban. ⁓ imagine to all of our surprise that, you know, we just can’t yet transition away from gas powered equipment.

Intrigue Media (32:00)
Yeah

You

Have you looked into California?

Joe Salemi (32:09)
And so they agreed with that. But it took me going and delegating at council meetings and working with

Intrigue Media (32:14)
Well, and you’re not a landscape

company, right? So they’re listening to you differently completely.

Joe Salemi (32:17)
Yeah,

that’s right. Yeah. And you know, we weren’t showing up with torches or pitchforks and screaming and there wasn’t a convoy, you know, in front of city hall. Yeah, right. And, know, our recommendation was maybe you want to look at your own house before telling other people what to do. And so their resolution, in fact, this this spring and the city of Toronto and council, they resolved that they’re going to start to slowly

Intrigue Media (32:25)
Like maybe research, maybe some research.

Joe Salemi (32:44)
⁓ migrate their fleet of equipment to zero emissions, which in some cases that works and in some cases just not there yet, you know, so.

Intrigue Media (32:52)
Right. But

then they get to experience the issues themselves. Instead of just…

Joe Salemi (32:55)
That’s right. Yeah. But these are the kinds of things that the association does that I

not a lot of industry, like not a lot of landscape business owners will realize this is the advocacy part of the association.

Intrigue Media (33:08)
And

very, very practical advocacy, like in terms of impact on somebody’s day-to-day life now.

Joe Salemi (33:11)
Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Intrigue Media (33:16)
But anyway, keep going. Sorry, I didn’t mean to stop you because not a lot of people understand that side of the business.

Joe Salemi (33:17)
Yeah, no. like another example

of that would be a couple of weeks ago. It was in Ottawa. There was a group of contractors in Ottawa that were pretty concerned about a new hardscape bylaw that a city council in their infinite wisdom decided to come up with. And, you know, we were consulted on this bylaw. In fact, going back all the way, like six months ago, they were starting to like they sent us surveys and they sent us drafts.

All the things that we highlighted as concerns, they just didn’t include. And so they passed this bylaw, this hardscape, in fact, hardscape contractors are now required to have a license to operate in Ottawa. And…

the blowback. Imagine this. So the lettering on your truck as part of this bylaw had to be six inches high.

Intrigue Media (34:06)
That makes perfect sense.

Joe Salemi (34:08)
So in some cases, in some cases,

the length of the business name is gonna be six to eight feet long. In what world is that gonna work? So, you know, some of the things that we came back to them with is to, you know, maybe not prescribe how big, just the fact that they should have their company name and a way to contact that company on the truck.

Intrigue Media (34:21)
You

Joe Salemi (34:32)
So that was reasonable. We were able to get a whole bunch of bylaw changes done and get clarification.

Intrigue Media (34:35)
It’s also good because

everybody needs to have that. Like that’s a huge piece. We talk about people. It’s like 100%.

Joe Salemi (34:39)
100%. And it was done to weed out all the bad actors in Ottawa. So

there’s a reason why this all came to bear. And we agree with the intention, but the result wasn’t exactly the way that they, I think they intended. I don’t think they intended it for, to be this muddy and this chaotic, but this is where an association like Landscape Ontario works in collaboration and partnership with the municipality to work towards a solution that works for everyone.

and not just be the heavy hand of government to say this is how it shall be. So yeah, no, I was just gonna say, so like we went to Ottawa City Council and we had a conversation with the mayor and we had conversation with staff in the mayor’s office. it’s through that collaboration that we were able to get this all done. We got everything that we asked for, by the way, because we approached it with totally.

Intrigue Media (35:12)
Right. And so then when when you’re working, sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, which makes sense though, because you’re looking out for the homeowner, you’re looking out for the business, you’re looking out for everybody.

Joe Salemi (35:34)
Totally, approach it with common sense and talk to everyone like they’re real people and treat them with dignity and respect and it goes a long way. Imagine.

Intrigue Media (35:42)
Yeah, who’d thought?

Okay, so one of the things I want to touch on quick, and we’re almost out of time here, but there’s an event that happens, Great Lakes, what do you guys, when all the associations get together.

Joe Salemi (35:54)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So the, the, all the nursery and landscape associations, the, the one Canadian provincial association that touches the Great Lakes and, there’s eight other, state associations that touch the Great Lakes. So every September, we get together and share all the challenges, and struggles that the associations are going through and kind of talk through, solutions. So what’s working really well, what’s the struggles.

And we spend two full days and you know, it’s the executive directors of these nine associations, the current board president and the incoming president. So we’ve got industry and staff coming together for two full days. Last year, last September, Landscape Ontario hosted. So our home base was in Niagara-on-the-Lake and we did a super fun reception at Landscape Ontario.

So, you know, in the grand scheme of things, you know, we talk about what Landscape Ontario does, there’s not a lot of nursery and landscape associations that have, you know, 25 acres of property and a conference facility on the property and can do the things that we’re doing. So we’re incredibly fortunate. And so when we go there, we often share a lot of the resources and things that we build. But quite honestly, we’re learning a ton too. So like, it’s not just like…

Intrigue Media (37:13)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Salemi (37:15)
we’re doing all the things and we know everything, no, God no. There’s some associations that are doing some really cool stuff that, you know, we’re always pulling a ton of nuggets out of that meeting and bringing back and, you know, even getting better at what we do. There’s always a way to get better.

Intrigue Media (37:29)
Well, I just think it’s the coolest thing to have those nine associations. You know, they’re all grabbing information from their memberships. It percolates into the organization, then it gets cross-spread between all of the associations and comes back down to everybody else. I think it’s just amazing. Cool. ⁓ One last piece. What do you want to let people know about what’s going on? If they want to look at the association, how should they do it?

Joe Salemi (37:41)
This is

Yeah, so we launched a brand new website earlier this year, landscapeontario.com. It’s an incredible lead generator for those companies that belong to the association. There’s a contractor search built into that. So a homeowner, a client can go and find a professional contractor in their area. definitely for some companies, that’s the reason they join and it becomes like a lead gen tool for them.

Intrigue Media (38:20)
Love that.

Joe Salemi (38:21)
Yeah, now that website helps the public understand, public homeowners, property owners, policy makers understand what Landscape Ontario is all about and has all the resources for industry that you could ever imagine. In the couple of short months that we’ve been live with our new website, we’ve got a quarter of a million unique visitors to our website already. So, I think…

Intrigue Media (38:42)
Check it out.

Joe Salemi (38:43)
Please, there’s so many resources that are on there. There’s something you can’t find, my goodness. Reach out, because there’s probably something there in some way, shape or form, I’m sure.

Intrigue Media (38:52)
Love it, Anyway, I appreciate you. If someone wants to talk to Joe, how do they go about doing that?

Joe Salemi (38:58)
my goodness,

reach out to me. So I’m very active on LinkedIn. Come and get me on LinkedIn or even on our website under contact us. You’ll find me there. My email and cell phone number are there.

Intrigue Media (39:08)
Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you doing this again. And we’ll obviously have to do it once more at some point in the future. We’ll maybe have to do one while we’re at the new facility or something like that. Look at a little mini episode to showcase what’s up.

Joe Salemi (39:14)
Yeah, we love it.

We’re planning ⁓ a recording in podcast studio as part of that facility. So we’ll host you. Yeah. There you go.

Intrigue Media (39:26)
even better. I’d love to do that. Awesome. Well, you’re the best. And thanks everybody

listening to another episode of the IM Landscape Growth Podcast.