Heather Jerrard on Crushing Fear and Owning Your Growth (My Landscape Artist)

00:03
Robert
Welcome to another episode of the I Am Landscape Growth podcast. Today I have a very special guest, Heather Jared, from my landscape artist and host of maybe one of the best industry podcast Pops and Hedges. Thank you so much for doing this.

00:17
Heather
Thank you. This is so cool. From podcastee to podcast, I guess, podcaster to podcaster. See, I’m still learning.

00:26
Robert
We’re all learning. It’s all good. We were just trying to do, like, a bit of a prep call to, like, get it. I was like, what are we doing? Let’s just do this. We’re going into, at the time of this recording into what is Easter weekend and Good Fridays tomorrow, which is busy time, right, For a lot of landscapers. And, I mean, especially in the northern hemisphere, you’re getting into, like, go time. So I’m so pumped to be doing this with you. Like, all the other episodes, we gotta do a quick little intro. I mean, there’s probably a lot of people listening that have heard lots of your episodes on Hops and Hedges, and if they haven’t, they should go check it out on Spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts.

00:57
Robert
But maybe you can just give us a quick little rundown of, like, how you ended up into this crazy world of entrepreneurship.

01:03
Heather
Yeah, it is a crazy journey. So I’m gonna say, long story super short. I. I was an entrepreneur before I knew I was an entrepreneur, right? I had all these people telling me, heather, you need to start your own business. I was like, what? You know, all the work, all the paperwork, taxes, government, Like, I don’t want to do that. I just want to design and install landscapes, and I just want to work with people. So I fought being an entrepreneur for a really long time, and turns out I’m not a very good employee. So by the age of 26, I had 30 different jobs. At the age of 26, I actually had to sit down and count them because I just didn’t fit anywhere, right? I’m too opinionated. I have too many ideas.

01:51
Heather
When I see a problem, I don’t keep my mouth shut. I have this big problem where if I can see a better way of doing something, I’m gonna say it. And some bosses don’t like that, which is actually shocking. I know.

02:04
Robert
And I think it says a lot about leadership, but that we can get to that in a bit, right?

02:10
Heather
And then, yeah, through found landscaping, through taking landscape design at Fanshawe College, London, Ontario, and it completely changed my life. I had no idea that this industry existed. At the age of 26. I’ve always been a passionate gardener. I’m also an artist, so I love painting and drawing and I love working with people. So we’ve got plants, gardens, art, all in one job. It was too good to be true, but it is actually so. I’m so lucky that I found my true calling at the age of 26.

02:44
Robert
So now I’m awesome.

02:45
Heather
Almost 40. Haven’t looked back.

02:48
Robert
Shut up.

02:49
Heather
I know. Don’t tell anybody, okay?

02:52
Robert
I won’t.

02:52
Heather
I got ID yesterday. I bought a beer yesterday and they asked me for my id. I was like, here you go, take a look at that.

03:00
Robert
Yeah, they’re like this fake. No. So Heather was asking, is this like just audio? And for the most part the answer is yes. However, clips will be on LinkedIn, Instagram, and maybe even some highlight reel stuff on YouTube. So.

03:15
Heather
Excellent. Make sure you only get my good side. Only get my good side. Yes. Cheers.

03:19
Robert
Hops and hedges. I’m. I’m on the Olay front, so it’s not quite beer.

03:25
Heather
What is. It’s a pineapple. Pineapple, coconut or just pineapple. What is it?

03:29
Robert
It’s mango and tequila.

03:33
Heather
Oh, wow. I wasn’t even close. Yeah, sorry. I’m an IPA girl, so a juicy.

03:38
Robert
Juicy ipa. I don’t really understand.

03:40
Heather
This one’s hazy.

03:42
Robert
Okay, so there is a difference between a hazy and a juicy.

03:46
Heather
Juicy is usually more citrusy and fruity. Hazy usually have some like funky stuff in it, like when you pour it and like all the bits come out hazy. No, you know, in my beer. There’s always wood chips in my beer.

04:02
Robert
Yeah. Okay, so then in terms of today, so what is your core focus for the business? Like who do you typically work with?

04:11
Heather
So I work with residential homeowners who are either do it yourselfers. So the people who enjoy gardening, I’m not going to take that from them, but they, they need a plan. They just have no idea what. What they need or what they. How. How to implement an idea or. I’m working with homeowners who don’t have time and don’t want to deal with it. So I come on board as a designer, but then I do all the project management and I do all the hiring of subcontractors. So they’re not worrying about finding who they need because I know everybody. So I just work with the people who best suit that type of job in the location. But then on the flip side of that, I also do business to business.

04:52
Heather
So if there is a landscape company who doesn’t have a designer on staff, then they can Call me up and they can send me photos, client interview measurements, and I’ll do a design for them. So.

05:03
Robert
Awesome.

05:03
Heather
Yeah.

05:04
Robert
And are you geographically, like, focused there at all or, like, where do you do that for people?

05:08
Heather
Not really. So I’m doing in person. I travel all over Ontario. I’ve been up to the Muskokas, Collingwood down to Windsor. Doing site visits cost more. I do charge by the kilometer. So it depends on what people need and how badly they need it. But then for virtual consultations, I’m actually working with a pool company down in the States who, they do not like plants. They don’t like planting plans. They don’t deciding where they’re going to go or what they’re going to use. They’ve sent me their plant library of what is available to them. They send me their pool plan, and I design their gardens. And I’ve never even met them.

05:47
Robert
That’s so sweet. And that’s, like, definitely more in line with the opportunity that I can probably present to you over time. Because we just hear it all the time. Time. People are like, you know, a good landscape designer. Like, you know, anybody that we can talk to help us on our landscape business.

06:02
Heather
Right.

06:02
Robert
And pool and hardscape is typically where they are, and that’s just concrete.

06:07
Heather
Well, and like, pool and hardscape guys and concrete guys are not plant people. Right.

06:13
Robert
Yeah.

06:13
Heather
So I often tell people that I’m the Poison Ivy to your Batman. Okay. Like, you have the toys. You have the. The expensive, big, shiny trucks. And I’m not into any of that. Like, I just want to do the plants.

06:27
Robert
That’s awesome.

06:28
Heather
Yeah.

06:29
Robert
And then quick shadow for hops and hedges. Like, you got this audience listening. What is it about and when? How should they. Or why should they go over there and check it out?

06:37
Heather
Well, so I am the host of Hops and Hedges on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. But it started as a dare. So at Landscape Ontario Congress, good friend of mine, now, at the time, he was a stranger. So Daniel over at Dan Core Landscapes, shout out to Daniel. We’re sitting having lunch, strangers, just networking as you do at Congress. And the speaker there had asked the room, what would you do? What would you try? If you knew that you couldn’t fail, if you knew that you would succeed, what would you try? And I looked over to Daniel and I was like, I would start a podcast. How cool would that be? Like, I’ve thought about it for years. And this perfect stranger, he called me out on my. Can I say on your Podcast. I just did twice.

07:25
Robert
You can say whatever. You can say whatever you want, Heather.

07:27
Heather
Okay, perfect disclaimer. That happens sometimes. But he’s like, so do it. I was like, what do you mean, do it? And he’s like, start your podcast. Like, what’s the worst that could happen? It’s like, well, I don’t know how to podcast. He’s like, there’s this thing called YouTube and it will tell you how to podcast. Like, way to call me out on my. That’s exactly what he did. And then he dared me. He said, do you know what? So this is January of 2024. He said, May 1st, I’m going to call you and I want to hear your first episode. I was like, what? You can’t do that. He’s like, I just did. And the following week, I. I published the first episode.

08:10
Robert
Oh, so good. How many episodes in now?

08:13
Heather
This week was 66 or 67.

08:16
Robert
And what’s the. What’s the core focus theme of the.

08:18
Heather
Show, outside of hops and hedges, is beer and landscaping.

08:23
Robert
Right.

08:24
Heather
And that’s it. So behind. That’s kind of surface level. Right. I love beer and landscaping. So that’s what we talk about. But really it comes down to the fact that I think there’s a lot of businesses out there and general public who. Who don’t know how awesome this industry is. Like, there are some incredible businesses that no one’s ever heard about. And so if I can create a platform and provide a platform for people to tell the world who they are, where they are, what they’re doing, it’s content on the Internet that maybe can help them get some more leads and some more awareness. Right.

09:04
Robert
Love it.

09:04
Heather
And it’s a good excuse for me to drink a beer in the afternoon, which I usually do anyway. So it’s.

09:09
Robert
It’s got. It’s for purpose, right?

09:12
Heather
It is purpose. I mean, I turned my passion into a job.

09:15
Robert
You’re supporting the industry, you’re recruiting people into the industry. You’re showcasing the industry. And, I mean, people don’t know what’s going on. Hazy versus juicy IPAs. Like, what does that even mean? And I learned that.

09:27
Heather
Yeah.

09:28
Robert
Today.

09:29
Heather
Well, and I’m a big fan of your podcast. So back at you, Rob, because the im, like, what. What you guys are doing, I love hearing other entrepreneurs stories and what they think is holding them back. Especially like, you. You had Mark Bradley on your show. He said he’s going to be on my podcast, but he’s a busy guy, so we’ll see.

09:50
Robert
He’s on fire right now.

09:52
Heather
Right? He is on fire. But that was a really good episode, and you’ve got a number of other really good episodes on there. So she.

10:02
Robert
Thank you. I appreciate you. Truth be told, my dog wants to go in and out of my house all the time right now, so I’m just getting her in there. Thanks for being annoying, Lola. Yeah, she’s great. So, truth be told, I’m just really selfish in my interview style because I want to learn, so.

10:19
Heather
Me too.

10:20
Robert
I just hope that parlays to an audience, and if it does, great. If it doesn’t, I don’t care because I’m learning, and I think that kind of bodes well. It’s so interesting, though, how I think we’re a similar episode, like, you know, frequency, whatever, but the patterns that come up, there’s really only two answers that are right, and the rest of them are just interesting to hear. And then, you know, there’s. There’s, obviously, if they listen to the other podcast episodes where they write answers where they can maybe learn something. But on that note, having time in the industry, working with all sorts of different, you know, companies, entrepreneurs, being one yourself, being part of congress, active involvement in the industry, you’ve got a pretty cool perspective. Right. Like, a lot of entrepreneurs, they run their own business. They have the one business.

11:14
Robert
Sometimes they’re in the, you know, associations, sometimes they’re not.

11:19
Heather
Yep.

11:20
Robert
But. But few people have, like, the breadth of perspective that you. You’d have. So what do you see as a primary growth constraint holding folks back in the green industry?

11:32
Heather
So. And I. I haven’t heard the right answer mentioned on any of your podcast episodes. So I don’t know. I’m just going out on a limb here.

11:42
Robert
Well, it’s all good.

11:43
Heather
When I’m listening to your podcast, I really think about it myself. Like, what. What holds. What holds us back? And it’s funny, because now I’m feeling pressure. I’m like, I don’t know if this is the right answer, but it doesn’t matter. So my answer, honestly, I think it’s ourselves. And I know. Is that right? Is it 100% okay? Because after the. We were talking before we started recording about war wounds. Right. And there’s things that we go through, things that happen to us that are outside of our control, and we can’t change them. We can’t. It’s an external force, full stop. That’s it. But you are in full control of how you take that situation, how you learn from it, how you Grow from it, how you go forward after that.

12:40
Heather
And because of that, when you make a mistake, quote, unquote, screw up, how do you learn from that mistake to better next time? And nobody can do that to you except yourself, 100%. So.

12:56
Robert
So where do you see that showing up then? Like, if. In your experience, I mean, like, if there’s a. An entrepreneur out there listening, and maybe they haven’t looked inward yet in terms of, like, the symptoms that they would be experiencing. Like, what do you see people dealing with when they’re maybe not taking full ownership of how they can essentially show up from their. Their. Their lessons learned?

13:21
Heather
It’s interesting because at the beginning of that question, you said the answer when people are looking inward for the answer. I think the problem is that people aren’t looking inward. I think they’re looking outward. They’re looking for the book that has the answer. They’re looking for the mentor that has the answer. They’re looking for the podcast, for the audio clip, for the something that is gonna flick the switch. But I think that the answers are in us. And the biggest thing of why we don’t do the thing is fear. We’re afraid of what people will think. We’re afraid of failure. We’re afraid we’re gonna look stupid. Right? And once we get over that, the magic happens because.

14:07
Robert
So, like, if. If somebody. Okay, keep going. Because.

14:13
Heather
I was just. Sorry. My ADHD brain, like, full stop. It was like, wait, what?

14:19
Robert
No, it’s all good. If people are looking inward, then they are on the right path. And if they’re not there yet, what kind of things do you hear them say? Or what kind of situations are they experiencing that would give somebody listening to this an opportunity to be like, oh, that’s happening to me. I need to change this.

14:42
Heather
So I would think what it comes down to, and it’s easier said than done, but I do think we all have intuition and a gut feeling. I think deep down we each know what the next step is, what we need to do, what work needs to be done. But until some external force, whether it’s a book, podcast, a mentor that says, you know, you should really do this, then that’s when the light bulb goes off and you’re like, oh, yeah, I knew that I should. Right? But you already know. And I think that’s something that a lot of us, as entrepreneurs struggle with. A lot of us also don’t like silence. We don’t like sitting in the quiet and listening to ourself in our own mind. We like to stay busy so we don’t have to listen to it.

15:34
Robert
Yeah, I got nothing going on tomorrow. I might as well fill it up. What’s interesting though, I think then if you’re listening to this and Heather, I agree with you, and if there’s something that you’ve been considering either to start doing or to stop doing, but for some reason, you know, you’re not, that’s probably a good indication that you need to just go do the thing.

15:57
Heather
Yeah.

15:58
Robert
And it’s interesting. This is not my first foray into podcasting. I actually, the first time I did this, I used to. I have a YouTube series called I am in a Car where essentially I just did this locally and drove around with entrepreneurs in my car.

16:14
Heather
Awesome. I’m totally gonna look that up. That’s awesome.

16:18
Robert
And there’s some gem episodes, but same deal, like I just asked the most successful, well known people in my, like, hour drive radius and ask them to be on the show and I go pick them up. And then we would essentially do very similar things that we’re doing now.

16:32
Heather
Yeah.

16:34
Robert
And it was just interesting, you know, going through that and I don’t know, whatever, 50, 100 episodes, I’m. But it was this other guy who were talking over the Christmas break, this is in, I don’t know, 2017 or something, and he’s like, you know, I’m gonna do some research on how to do this podcast. I’m getting all this equipment and I’m just gonna, like, I’m gonna set up the studio and I’m gonna like, figure out what the best questions are to ask. And. And so six months later, I got a chance to run into the person. They hadn’t filmed an episode yet or recorded an episode. I’d done a bunch with my phone on like a Amazon suction cup, you know, phone holder, essentially. And I was getting better at interviewing just by doing the reps.

17:23
Robert
It’s just amazing how much you learn when you go do the thing.

17:25
Heather
Yeah, yeah. There’s this phrase that in 2020 probably saved my life. Right. But it’s progress, not perfection. And there’s something to be said about forward momentum. Even sideways momentum is still sideways. Sometimes you have to pivot. Right. That was the word of 2020. And I always think of that episode when they’re trying to pivot. Pivot the couch on the stairs. Right. But it’s so true. Like, change is inevitable. Things are going to happen in our life, things are going to happen in the world. Things are going to happen in politics. Stupid tariffs are going to be on and then they’re going to be off again and then on and then off again. Right. We have no control over this crap. Change is inevitable. It is a normal thing that occurs.

18:18
Heather
So we can either stress out every time a change happens or we can expect change to happen. And my stress is quite low, honestly, since being an entrepreneur, I’m a very stress free entrepreneur. Now that I don’t have a micromanager and now that I don’t have to kit hit all these key performance indicators every day on the hour, I’m a lot more stress free and I’m a heck of a lot more productive, honestly.

18:50
Robert
How cool is that? So let’s break that down then. For other people listening to this, I might have team members that are doing said micromanagement and pressure oriented like you know, work management approaches. So how does that productivity piece play out from where you were to where you are now? And, and what was the big difference for you?

19:09
Heather
Yeah, so the big thing that comes to mind, number one, I’ve had business coaches in my life and as mentors through the landscape. Ontario’s peer to peer network for years. I think when I, the first year I started at Fanshawe, I became a student member kind of by accident. So the peer to peer network is supposed to be for owners and senior managers.

19:31
Robert
Right.

19:32
Heather
And I had a boss send me on his behalf. I was a student and they adopted me and I’ve been a member of peer to peer ever since.

19:41
Robert
They just put their arms around, you’re like, hey, let’s do this. You’re welcome.

19:44
Heather
They’re like, we’re not letting you go.

19:45
Robert
I mean the industry across the board too, I found is like that with rare occurrence on being extremely welcoming and hospitable. Yeah. And I think if anybody’s listening to this, actually maybe just a quick nugget on. I want to get back to this piece. Yeah, you know I’m gonna write it down here. I got this.

20:05
Heather
Okay.

20:05
Robert
I got a piece. Okay, so go back to this. Entrepreneurship being less stressful and more productive because of the way that you’re posting your work versus one to one, Right.

20:11
Heather
Yes. Thank you. I was going to ask you to repeat the question because I was like.

20:14
Robert
I got you, I got you.

20:15
Heather
I don’t remember. So through business coaches, even outside of the industry. So Jen Todd, she’s a business coach, a female business coach in Woodstock from the Shift Collective and she does this like annual women’s entrepreneur retreat. And I thought I would just go on a whim. Right. Like I would just go and find out. And the biggest nugget that I got from that weekend event and it still stays to me, stays with me this day is the difference between time management and energy management. So I was hyper fixated, probably the ocd. I was hyper fixated on managing my time. Okay, at 9 o’ clock I’m going to do this. At 10:30 I’m going to do this. At 10:15 I’m going to take a break. At 11:30 I’m going to go do this. At 12 o’ clock I’m going to go check on the guys.

21:12
Heather
I’m going to grab lunch on the way back and then I’m going to run out. I was on the dot. I don’t like being late for anything. Right. Like I was so hyper fixated on utilizing my time to be productive. But what happened was that I didn’t realize that my energy does not. It’s not at 100% from 9 to 5. My energy and everybody’s is different. My energy is actually really high from 9 until 11 and then it dips. And then that’s when I need to read, it’s when I need to nap, it’s when I need to eat, it’s when I need to meditate. And then I get another burst of energy from 2 to 4 and then I usually take a little bit of a nosedive, energy wise. Right?

22:06
Robert
Yeah.

22:06
Heather
So instead of time blocking, now I energy block. So I know that I’m going to be most productive from 9 to 11. So I book the most intense either physical work that I need to do if I’m actually planting or if I’m going to be on a job site. If I’m doing a site visit, if I’m measuring, that’s when I’m doing that. Then I come home to decompress. That’s when I’m having my beer. Right. I need to re energize, I need to sit, I need to chill the heck out. And it’s okay to stop. It’s okay to stop. As employees, it’s go, go, go. And we wonder why people burn out and call in sick and quit.

22:53
Robert
Right.

22:53
Heather
I might be slightly passionate about this topic. Sorry, let me just reel that back in. I can get a little let it out though.

23:03
Robert
The thing is cool, I mean, hearing it from the like a team member’s perspective, I think it’s super valuable for the entire audience.

23:08
Heather
Yeah. But we can’t push people to be at 100% max capacity from 9 to 5. It’s unrealistic. We’re living, breathing beings who can use at 100% capacity from 9 to 5. You can’t.

23:24
Robert
I mean, you know, the entrepreneurs think they can, and I find that because they think they can. They think others should.

23:31
Heather
Right. But even thinking you can, you need to press the pause button as an entrepreneur.

23:39
Robert
Well, no doubt. And let’s just talk about that for a second.

23:41
Heather
We bottom out real fast. Well.

23:44
Robert
And they’re like, I haven’t taken a vacation in four years. I don’t even take vacations. I’m just grinding, doing it. I’m just, I’m giving her, making it happen. Yeah. I don’t need vacations. Vacations are for wimps.

23:54
Heather
It’s like, so maybe it’s not you suffering, maybe it’s your family, maybe it’s your kids, it’s your relationships.

24:01
Robert
Take a step back and look at the best people that do the best things in the world. Take Olympic athletes as a great example. If you look at their exercise and their training regimen, rest is part of it.

24:12
Heather
Rest is part of the regime. Yes, yes.

24:15
Robert
Bodybuilders rest days.

24:18
Heather
You have to. You cannot bodybuild from nine to five every day.

24:23
Robert
You can’t seven days a week. 24, seven.

24:25
Heather
You’ll break your body.

24:27
Robert
Yeah, yeah.

24:28
Heather
You need the rest between the reps.

24:31
Robert
So then what would be a reasonable approach for an entrepreneur with a team of, say, 10 people, they need to get the work done. You know, giving people four hours of break during a nine to five is probably unreasonable.

24:47
Heather
Right?

24:48
Robert
Having. Having no breaks during nine to five is also probably unreasonable.

24:52
Heather
Yeah.

24:52
Robert
So what would you say to folks listening to this about, like, how they might want to approach their team? Something to consider around this topic, number.

24:59
Heather
One would be awareness. Do you know when your guys are most productive? Do you know when and where? And I say guys. Sorry. When I say guys, I mean guys and girls. Guys. When I say guys, I mean people. Okay, so when you’re people, do you know when they are most productive? But do you also know where they’re wasting time? Because I betcha there’s times where there’s four people in a truck picking up materials that you could have paid to have delivered. Right.

25:32
Robert
Well, and actually it’s a common theme too on crew size. People saying that two people depending on the job, obviously. But two people on a crew that can actually be more efficient than three people on a crew. And so you got. So the first thought that you have that is find the waste. And based on what you’ve experienced, what are some good ways to figure out where the waste is? And I mean, you mentioned Mark Bradley earlier too, like he’s a, a demon.

25:59
Heather
He’s big on waste.

26:01
Robert
Out to get rid of waste.

26:03
Heather
Yes.

26:03
Robert
He says waste is the enemy. Right. In a company. So where do you look for or where would you suggest people look to find ways?

26:12
Heather
I think it’s too varied. So everybody is so different. Every business is so different. In, in my own experience, my waste, it does stem from energy. So if I know that I’m going to have a dip in energy around 1 o’ clock or 12:30, that’s when I would have lunch. Right. So this, what do you call it? Where it’s just this blanket policy where it’s like, okay, lunch break is at 12. Well, if I’m on a job site, I actually like to give her from nine to one.

26:48
Robert
Right.

26:49
Heather
Like, I. There’s no morning break, there’s no. As an entrepreneur, right. If I’m in the job, I’m in the flow. I, I don’t want to stop.

26:56
Robert
Just crank it out.

26:57
Heather
Yeah, I just want to crank it out because I’m in flow. Right. Because I’m in that. I have that momentum and I want to keep building on that. But before I crash and burn at 1:00 clock, I’m going to stop at 12:30 and. Okay. Take a little breather, rehydrate and get ready to go again.

27:18
Robert
Yeah.

27:21
Heather
So I, I do think that energy has a play into it. I don’t think I’m of a scientific enough mind to explain it properly.

27:29
Robert
Oh, good. No, no, that’s great.

27:31
Heather
So, but I’m telling you, energy is important.

27:34
Robert
And so switching gears a little bit into like your core expertise around design and, you know, one could argue artistry. There’s this technology thing that’s happening the last couple years, right. I think they call it AI.

27:50
Heather
AI this little thing. I’ve heard this rumor called AI.

27:54
Robert
Yeah. So, like, what do you see as like the immediate impacts or future impacts of this thing around, specifically the world’s design? Just because that’s where you know, kind of spend most of your day.

28:05
Heather
Yeah. So the first thing that comes to mind actually is I did. I ran an ad with a local theater company. I sponsored theater production by placing an ad on the back page of their program. And I used AI to create this image. It was for production of Kinky Boots. So for Anybody who doesn’t know about it’s a drag queen who wears these amazing sparkly red boots. Right. So I created an AI image of myself in a garden, digging, wearing kinky boots. And the catchphrase said, your local kinky gardener or garden designer. And you know what? I didn’t get a single inappropriate phone call. I thought I might, but maybe London is a little bit too conservative.

28:51
Robert
Maybe they’re good, but it’s also people going to type a show.

28:57
Heather
Right? Yeah.

28:58
Robert
So it’s not like you put it in the newspaper or magazine or on some weird Internet.

29:02
Heather
Hey, anybody who wants to publish that photo? I still. I’ll. I have a copy. I will send it to you and you can attach it to this podcast episode. Okay.

29:10
Robert
But with a thumbnail. No.

29:13
Heather
I don’t know. Whatever. This is your podcast.

29:16
Robert
Yeah, it’s yours.

29:18
Heather
But what it comes down to. So that image, I have 11 fingers.

29:24
Robert
Right.

29:25
Heather
And not everybody noticed it, but I did. And this is what I see when I see AI sneaking into landscape design, is that it’s not buildable. So AI, I think, is really great for sending that initial preliminary kind of 3D concept. Yeah. So you can take a picture of somebody’s backyard and tell AI to populate an Italian spire inspired garden. Right. It is going to be super gaudy. Like it goes way to the extreme. Scale is not important. Right. So I can’t tell how deep the garden is. I see it interior design as well. You can redesign a room, but. And it looks great, but then when you actually dive into it, the couch is only two feet long.

30:16
Robert
Right. So it’s just. It’s just not quite there yet.

30:18
Heather
Right. So I think AI is a great tool to save money at those preliminary stages where you could send your client 12 AI generated images that are all completely different to get a sense of what their style is.

30:36
Robert
Yeah, Cool. Orient the decision making process. Right. Get them to see something and quickly without having to go too far down.

30:42
Heather
The rabbit hole with effort and not spending time creating 12 different concepts, which I don’t suggest. Anyway, if you’re proposing concepts, you propose two, not 12.

30:51
Robert
Right.

30:52
Heather
Okay. People don’t like choices. They like add choice, not 12 choices. So that’s a great thing. But when it actually comes down to creating a design that’s buildable, AI is not there yet.

31:05
Robert
Yeah. Okay, that’s cool. But you. But you do see an opportunity to help leverage your workflow with it. That’s neat. So then in terms of, you know, your on field journey, you’re like five years in five years.

31:19
Heather
Five years in with my own business. 12 years in the industry.

31:24
Robert
Right. Awesome. And so is there a resource speaker, author, somebody that you want to share with the group that they might want to check out?

31:33
Heather
Oh, geez. If you would have asked me earlier, I could have prepared a whole list.

31:38
Robert
Yeah, but then they would have too many choices.

31:40
Heather
I know. Too many choices. That’s good. I actually have what you can’t see right now. For anybody who is watching a snippet. I have a Florida ceiling bookshelf behind my laptop that you can’t see. And it’s all professional and personal development. So picking only a couple is hard. I think probably the one book that comes to mind especially for what we’re talking about today, it’s a book called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway, that’s by Susan Jeffers and she actually, she dives into the science of why we choose not to do things. Because we know that we choose to do things to either seek pleasure or avoid pain.

32:24
Robert
Yeah.

32:25
Heather
But when it comes to fear, we actually prevent ourselves from doing things, making choices, trying things, because we have a fear of failure. But if we can rejigger our mind to actually try something and quote, unquote, fail at it, you’re actually closer to success because you learn from that failure.

32:46
Robert
And way more than you didn’t do it correct.

32:50
Heather
And that’s the thing with goal setting too, right. This is something that I set for myself. 10x that goal. That’s another great book. The 10x rule by. Where is it on my thing? I don’t know. By Cardone. 10x rule by Cardone. Great book. But if you set yourself a 10x goal, so make it, make yourself a goal. Right. I’m gonna make a hundred thousand in revenue this year. Okay, that’s a goal. Now 10x that, multiply it by 10. That is a massive goal for small entrepreneur, small business. But if you set that goal, what are the chances that you’re going to exceed the hundred thousand dollar goal? You might.

33:29
Robert
Well, you got to think differently to get there. You’re going to go right past it.

33:31
Heather
You have to think differently. Exactly. So 10x your goal, knowing that, you know what if you don’t hit it? That’s not a failure. You’re not a failure if you don’t reach your goal. The goal is the destination. But you are going to learn so much on the journey getting there. Way more than you would have if you just sat on your ass and didn’t do anything. Progress, not perfection. Head in the direction you want to.

33:57
Robert
Go and be afraid to do it anyway. It’s almost full circle from the very beginning of what’s holding people back. So I appreciate you doing that, whether you did it on purpose or not. So it. People listening to this, they want to go listen to your podcast. Give them a rundown, though. I mean, you talk about, you know, beer and landscaping, but what’s like. Give people an idea of, like, what they should expect if they were to come in and listen to what you’re doing.

34:16
Heather
So hops and hedges, it’s really. It’s a springboard for small businesses to kind of get their names out there on the surface. We talk about landscaping and beer once we dig in. The things that I’m really looking at.

34:30
Robert
Nice, right?

34:31
Heather
Once we dig in. Horticultural podcast like that. So I’m a. I’m a huge advocate for mental health, so I sit on a number of committees for mental health, specifically depression and anxiety and lgbtq. So these are two things I’m very passionate about. But in terms of the podcast, hops and hedges, I want to know the mental health struggles and what have been your challenges? How do you overcome them? How do you deal with them? What are your coping mechanisms? Because we all have them. And in my experience, after becoming diagnosed with depression in 2014, which was a big slap in the face to me because I just. I just thought I needed to get my shit together. Turns out I needed to get medicated because I had a chemical imbalance, right? So.

35:24
Heather
But once I got medicated and once I started talking to people, I realized that my challenges were not just mine, that we are all going through this thing called the human experience, Right? Some people call it mental health. I call it the human experience. None of us are perfect beings. We all have challenges. We are all suffering in our own ways. And nobody’s suffering is less or more than somebody else’s, Right? We all own and have our own suffering. So if we can talk about it more, then maybe we’ll all realize we’re not so alone. Yeah, that’s some of the meat and potatoes you might find on hops and hedges.

36:05
Robert
Love it. Well, one day, I would love to have the opportunity to be on set.

36:09
Heather
You’re already invited. I just need to get through your receptionist.

36:13
Robert
My question. My question, though, is, do I pick the beer or do you pick the beer?

36:18
Heather
So you pick your own beer, and I pick my own beer, and then we talk about it.

36:22
Robert
Do I have to have, like, talking points on my beer. Ready? Like, I just want to make sure I come prepped.

36:26
Heather
Nah. So I have a. With hops and hedges, I have a pre interview questionnaire. It’s more about me. Just picking your brain about some bullet points. I think there’s 20 questions that helps me guide the interview. So you’re braver than I am. Doesn’t look like you have any notes on me. You’re just like, Governor. I’m not that natural yet. So I have these 20 questions so I can kind of figure out what are they willing to talk about? What are they not willing to talk about? What beers do they like? Maybe they don’t even like beer. I’ve had people on my show who are Muslim and they don’t drink alcohol, so we talked about different teas and waters.

37:00
Robert
Cool. Oh, that’s great. Love that.

37:02
Heather
Yeah. So it’s whatever your beverage of choice. You don’t actually have to drink alcohol or beer in order to be on the show.

37:08
Robert
You’re talking to the audience because you’re not talking to me.

37:10
Heather
I don’t believe in peer pressure.

37:12
Robert
Nice. Just peer groups. Nice.

37:15
Heather
Just peer groups.

37:16
Robert
Thank you so much for doing this, Heather. If someone did want to reach out and find you to help with landscape design, where would they best served to do that?

37:23
Heather
They can find me all over the Internet. So my landscape artist is my company’s name. Hops and Hedges is the name of the podcast. Heather Gerard, which nobody can spell, but it’s J, E R R A R D Gerard. My husband warned me when I married him. He’s like, are you sure you want my last name? Nobody can spell it. Okay. I was born Heather Bailey. So I went through a lifetime of nobody screwing up my name. And then I got married. I’ve done my time. I. I’m. I’m okay with it.

37:54
Robert
So website, Instagram, what’s the best place to get you everything?

37:58
Heather
My landscape artist. If you just Google it, I will show up.

38:02
Robert
Very cool. Well, thank you again for doing this. Ready for listening to another episode of the I Am Landscape growth podcast?

38:07
Heather
Thank you, Rob.