The #1 Growth Constraint in the Green Industry | Aaron Whitener of ACE Outdoor

Rob – Intrigue Media (00:31)
Welcome back to another episode of the I am landscape growth podcast. I have a long overdue guest on the show today. Aaron Whitener. Aaron, I’m so pumped we finally made this happen. Aaron’s the president of ACE Outdoor Services up in Michigan. Thanks for doing this, man.

Aaron Whitener (00:49)
You’re welcome. Glad to be here with you today, finally.

Rob – Intrigue Media (00:52)
So many, many moons ago, we had an opportunity to meet on a beach in Mexico, just, you know, between Puerto Verde and say, Lita, if you know the area while you’re listening. And, and I realized that we were going to be doing like a survivor style, like team game. And there was like a tug of row tug of war contest. And then some other awesome things, building a tower or whatever. And then I saw Aaron was going to be on my team. was like, I don’t think these guys got a chance if Aaron’s on my team. And anyway, just really appreciate having the opportunity to meet you.

And I know we’ve run into each other over the years, but yeah, pumped to have you do this. If you could give the audience who don’t know you just a quick little Coles note summary of how you ended up running ACE Outdoor, that’d be awesome.

Aaron Whitener (01:33)
Like most people in this industry, just started when I was 16, cutting grass out of the back of a truck. That kind of just parlayed into staying in the industry for now 24 years. 2026 will be 25 years. So I would say at this point, I’ve decided this is my career. There’s not so much a side hustle anymore. So I’ve done this for 26 years.

Rob – Intrigue Media (01:55)
you

Aaron Whitener (02:02)
You know, I basically just had good people around me that helped me continue to grow the company and establish what we have today. I mean, that’s the short version.

Rob – Intrigue Media (02:11)
Yeah, okay, cool. then in terms of, I mean, we’ll get into more detail, like, ⁓ core focus size of team, like what’s the size of the company, just to understand the perspective where it’s coming from.

Aaron Whitener (02:19)
So so right now we’re roughly about 14 million we have about a hundred and fifty employees We have three different locations all within that southeast Michigan region That’s that’s basically

Rob – Intrigue Media (02:32)
And then, and what’s the

core focus of the organization?

Aaron Whitener (02:35)
So lawn, snow, basically enhancement services. We’ll do some light construction stuff, but nothing real heavy.

Rob – Intrigue Media (02:43)
and residential commercial, it’s mostly commercial.

Aaron Whitener (02:45)
It would be majority commercial work. We do a little bit of residential services, especially in the enhancements and things like that, but more on the one-off projects. We do most of the residential in certain areas, but it’s not the primary driver of what we do day to day.

Rob – Intrigue Media (03:00)
business.

Okay, awesome. So the main question of the show, which is what is the primary growth constraint holding entrepreneurs back in the green industry? If for the sake of today, why don’t we start with what you see now? Like in today’s world, what do you see as the biggest constraint holding people back?

Aaron Whitener (03:18)
I think in certain markets it just varies, but I would say probably it’s always people, whether that’s on the customer end or on the employee end, you’re always just kind of working to build the relationships with the customers and build your relationships with your people and have that tenure of both. think it’s longevity of relationship is probably what…

is the biggest restraint because sometimes loyalty is misplaced and you lose customers or you lose good employees and then you have to kind of start over and rebuild those relationships with different people, different customers, different employees. So I think it’s relationship based and.

Rob – Intrigue Media (04:01)
Yeah. Okay. That’s awesome.

And so, I mean, the idea of relationships being the constraint to growth for, for me out of the gate makes me ask a lot of like questions. can go a lot of different ways, but before I go down that path, starting from, you know, you and a lawnmower to you and 150 other people, I would have thought you

I’m thinking you broke through a bunch of constraints along the way and relationships just happened to be a theme as you were doing it. but what would you say was kind of the, the first step away from being like a. Solo opener, tiny business thing to 10 million plus company.

Aaron Whitener (04:41)
I would say it’s just, you know, steady. I mean, I’ve just continued to grow the team, continued to kind of just drive forward. No matter what obstacles got put in the way, we always were able to just work through them, whether it was with, you know, customers or with employees or even just other issues that come up in business. I think it’s just the determination to win and just keep pushing forward.

Rob – Intrigue Media (05:07)
Yeah.

So I mean, that’s an interesting perspective, right? Because I’m under the impression when you started off as a side hustle, you didn’t expect it to be where it is today.

Aaron Whitener (05:16)
No, I did not. No, for about a decade, I would say it was just a side hustle. I made a living off of it, but I didn’t have the responsibilities then than I do now. I would say for the majority of 10 years, roughly, the first 10 years, was me deciding if this is something I’m going to continue to do or if it was just going to be my entry into whatever else I decided to pursue.

Rob – Intrigue Media (05:17)
It right.

Yeah, okay, cool. And so then when you decided I’m doing this, what was it that made you think about it that way?

Aaron Whitener (05:47)
You know, I don’t know if it just happened or if it was a mind shift, you know, a mind shift.

I think a lot of things in life, you know, as we grow up and we get older and we get more wisdom and wiser, we just kind of start to figure out our own path. And I think this one has always drawn me. I always was interested in landscaping. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the people. I just think that when you’re just putting your head down and going though, time just moves so quick. You know, 10 years was a blink and here it is 15 years later. I barely remember, you know, what that mind shift was back then.

Thank

Rob – Intrigue Media (06:24)
Right.

But I mean it’s a significant shift, Like I mean, for 10 years, how many people did you have working with you after 10 years?

Aaron Whitener (06:32)
Probably four, five, six, maybe not that many.

Rob – Intrigue Media (06:36)
Right. it’s, you know, it’s, this is a, I’d say probably the largest segment of landscape companies of safe, you know, founder plus five. And, and it, it’s relatively simple, you know, there’s not a bunch of human dynamics to deal with. You don’t have a you know, monster that needs to be fed, you know, in terms of the organization and revenue and making it so it’s, it’s making a dime at the end of the day. And then.

and then you started to keep going. Was it just momentum and inertia that you know as you’re starting to do it and you’re saying you know I can see myself doing this let’s go go go. Was there a key account or a key staff member you got on that gave you the relationships you needed to get to the next. Like how did that start.

Aaron Whitener (07:19)
That’s a great question. think a lot of it came back to yes, I did get some larger accounts like in that time period where that helped because it made me see kind of more than just residential customers, smaller commercials. So that was nice that, you know, I was able to see, hey, there’s some larger stuff out there. This is more enjoyable. You know, one customer is managing a large property, so you’re not having to work with a whole bunch of different clients. But also just pain. I mean, you’re just, you know, when you’re smaller and

you’re

four or five people, there’s just not a lot of people to do everything that needs to be done. I think that for us, or for me specifically, I was always to the mind shift, things will get better when you get bigger at a certain point.

Rob – Intrigue Media (07:53)
Isn’t that the truth? Tell me more about that though. That’s a really interesting point you bring up.

Aaron Whitener (08:05)
You know, if you got three or four guys, you’re the biller, you’re answering the phones, you’re doing estimates, you know, you’re just doing a lot of things. They might be mowing the grass every day or doing some enhancements, but there’s so much that happens behind the scenes outside of just that activity. And you’re doing everything. So I felt like I’m just thinking back, like, I remember saying to some friends in the industry, you know, you either have to be really small, like probably that under five.

Or you have to get through the middle and get fairly large to maybe have a little bit more opportunity to hire better people to help you run things to where you’re not trapped doing every activity that needs to be done. So I think that was where I was at. was like, well, I don’t want to be small. So I thought, just get big. See what happens. And I’ll win.

Rob – Intrigue Media (08:55)
Why? And we see it though,

you know, like in that muddy middle, I’m curious from your point of view, you know, if you’re sitting, you’re a crew, you know, you plus five and you’re doing say 800 grand or a million to pay on how productive you are, know, which is like really productive per person. If you’d actually, you know, look at the average landscape company. Yeah, exactly. so w you know, let’s say it’s sub a million a year to, and then you’re in the muddy middle. Once you get to that, like million.

Aaron Whitener (09:11)
Nowadays, it would be great.

Rob – Intrigue Media (09:24)
to where do you see that start to shift a bit again, where you’ve got now enough in the business to support a couple of leaders that can help actually bear some of the weight and really push it forward.

Aaron Whitener (09:36)
Yeah, I think it goes back to those key people, those relationships, those people you’re able to bring into the company. Because I mean, you could have a whole bunch of help around you, but they might not be actually adding value. They’re just kind of there to do tasks that you assign to them. So I think it’s more, if I had to guess, I’m just maybe $3 million-ish? I’m just guessing. Yeah, like.

Rob – Intrigue Media (09:57)
That fits with what we see. No, I

think two and a half is when people start to see the room to be able to like have well-paid people that aren’t necessarily productive in the field. ⁓ I think three million is pretty spot on.

Aaron Whitener (10:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, I’m just estimating. I’m trying to think back, but you know, it’s been a minute. Yeah, it’s long time ago. lot’s happened today, let alone this week. Yes, we got wheels now. We got almost automatic mowers now. You don’t even have to eat it. mean, just… Yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (10:16)
It’s long time. It’s the long time. We got wheels now.

Well, mean, I don’t even know if almost is accurate anymore, right?

It’s crazy. So, but what’s really interesting now what you said, um, you know, the, there’s, I’d love to get your take on this saying that we got. So, uh, I can’t remember where I heard it, but maybe I’ll even take credit for myself, but it doesn’t matter. Um, it’s really easy to hire someone and tell them what to do. It is not easy to find someone that’s going to come into your organization and tell you what you need to do.

Aaron Whitener (10:50)
Yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (10:55)
And so did that happen for you with hiring some of these key relationships and like, what was that like?

Aaron Whitener (11:01)
I had been blessed my whole career hiring people that were just smarter than me. That just were able to show me the things that I didn’t know. I did not grow up with a business background, I would say. I grew up in this business.

but you don’t know what you don’t know. And so like I was very, blessed that I hired a few people along the way that definitely knew more than me and were able to kind of own some areas of the company and build them out for us. And honestly, some of that stuff we still use today exactly the way they built it a decade ago. You know, even with technology being more, you know, kind of the forefront of how we operate now. So yes, finding those key people, finding those people that can help you

of take some of the weight is crucial to getting growth basically. that’s even today, even now. I’m dealing with that even now, still, okay, what is the talent that I need to go further? And looking and saying, okay, where do I need to find the talent that’s been where I want to go?

Rob – Intrigue Media (11:53)
Well, they.

Which is really interesting, you know, cause I was about to ask, you know, if you’re for people listening to this, what do they do? Like, how do they do that? But I think you just kind of started down that path by saying who has done what I w who has been where I want to go and how can I twist their arm, convince them bribe, bribe them to come help me get there. then were you that conscious?

about that approach when it first happened with the first couple of key people or where you’re just like how did you find those key people like for someone listening to this who doesn’t have that and is like I really want that how do they do that?

Aaron Whitener (12:45)
Pray about it. don’t have the real answer for that. I just was blast, honestly. Like even today, people, know, some of the people that have…

works for us and that worked for us now, I don’t know how they ended up here. You know what I mean? It’s a great company, but I just mean like, it’s just interesting to see people’s journeys in life and where they land and it’s like, you’re not even, you’re from two hours away, how are you here? You know what I mean? I don’t really have the answer, unfortunately. I don’t have the secret sauce that’s gonna help everybody.

jump over that hurdle is all I would say is just be clear on what you want and make sure that you understand, hey, this is what I’m trying to do, this is what I want, try to put down as much of that vision and of that clarity as you can so if you do find the right person, they at least are going in the same direction that you are in the way you want them to go. That would be my only real advice behind.

Rob – Intrigue Media (13:42)
I’m chuckling because I think there’s a lot more power or gravitas. mean, even the notification on that device is signaling how powerful that piece was. ⁓ And I want to shed some light on it. And I think some other things in a quick second. interestingly enough, and this is a random reference, but there’s this movie called How Do You Know? Have you ever heard this movie? I think it’s Reese Witherspoon.

Aaron Whitener (13:43)
Okay.

Okay, good.

I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of that one.

Okay.

Rob – Intrigue Media (14:11)
It’s like, it’s a good chick flick for people that don’t like chick flicks. If I’m allowed to say that anymore, I don’t know. But I, yeah. Okay. Well, it is, it’s a good chick flick for people that don’t like chick flicks. Anyway, it’s all about a story of this, lady who was the captain of the American softball women’s team. And for like a decade, and then one season she gets cut from the team altogether. So she goes from captain for a decade to cut. And then it like clips to a montage of pajamas and eating ice cream and depression and whatever.

Aaron Whitener (14:15)
I feel like you just said it, so you’re allowed.

Rob – Intrigue Media (14:39)
And then finally she gets convinced to go see a therapist and to start talking about what she’s going through. And she has this big identity crisis, whatever. Anyway, so she’s in the room in a therapist and the person’s not there yet. She’s waiting. She’s just like getting really nervous. And the person walks in the room and she gets up, freaks out. like, I can’t do this. And goes to leave. And then before she leaves, she turns the door. She said, there was, you know, generally one piece of advice that would kind of like generally work for everybody, you know, what would that piece of advice be? And the therapist thinks for a minute in silence.

looks up and says, figure out what you want and learn to ask for

Aaron Whitener (15:12)
That’s it.

Rob – Intrigue Media (15:12)
I think

what you said there, you know, writing down, first of all, you did say pray, which I think is more powerful than a lot of people think.

Aaron Whitener (15:20)
I agree.

Rob – Intrigue Media (15:22)
Um, and clarity, mean, taking the time to either say to yourself or to the world or to write to yourself or to the world about what you really, really want with clarity. I think in the world of distraction that exists today more than ever is harder for people to do. Um, whether they choose to or not, but I think that that there is some power to the idea of getting clear.

Aaron Whitener (15:50)
Yeah, it’s hard to get somebody to follow your kind of vision if they don’t even have clarity of what that is. So, I mean, you can find the best people in the world, but they’re gonna kind of go their direction unless you kind of at least give them somewhere to run with you. That’s my opinion.

Rob – Intrigue Media (16:05)
And so

when you wrote that stuff down, you don’t still have it, you?

Aaron Whitener (16:10)
⁓ yeah, actually I do. yeah.

Rob – Intrigue Media (16:12)
Maybe one day we can take a peek. So think that’d be pretty amazing. Is it short form or long form? Yeah, okay. So is it short form like jotted notes or is it long form explanatory?

Aaron Whitener (16:14)
yeah, we got it. Yeah, we still work on it. mean, what was that?

It’s pretty, it’s pretty in depth. It’s more of a vision that says, Hey, this is where we’re going to try to go in, you know, a three year time gap. So, then we’ll, look at it every year and see what we accomplished and what we need to do. And if we want to add to it or where we’re all going, I try to get my, mean, I set the original vision, but I do, you know, have my team’s input and I want to, you know, make sure they’re invested in it as well. And, and bought into where we’re going.

Rob – Intrigue Media (16:31)
Awesome.

on those people, those that weigh in buy in.

Aaron Whitener (16:54)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Can’t be all me. mean, they have to execute as well. if we’re not in it cohesively, then, you know, it’s going to fail.

Rob – Intrigue Media (17:05)
Yeah, there was something else too, that you had actually something that I’ve just observed and probably one of the biggest reasons I think you’re an amazing human is that no matter what happens, you have it’s a gratitude to say, but not a gratitude. Sorry. It’s a, it’s a cliche to say, not a cliche to do, but you have an attitude of gratitude.

Aaron Whitener (17:14)
Thank you.

I think so. mean, yeah. I say yes.

Rob – Intrigue Media (17:26)
Well,

I think you’ve said I’m blessed maybe a dozen times in the first 20 minutes of this. Everywhere I see you, there’s a big smile on your face. You’re always grateful for what’s going on, whether it’s a complete shit show or just a beautiful, sunny day that’s been prosperous for months in a row. And I think a lot of people gravitate to that because they don’t see it a lot. And so I’m just curious, is that

Aaron Whitener (17:30)
I am.

Rob – Intrigue Media (17:49)
approach to life in terms of being grateful for what you have, something that you’ve always brought with you and is it part of your organization? people like, you bring it alive? Do you bring visibility to it? Like, what is that like for you?

Aaron Whitener (18:02)
I would say yes. mean, I try to bring it alive and make sure that, you know, I’m casting that kind of joy throughout the week, the day to the people around me. Am I perfect? No, there’s definitely periods of time where it’s a little bit harder than others. But I mean, I think if you’re in this industry for long enough and you grow a company with, you know, the help of many people, but

Ultimately, the liability rests with you. You get thrown a lot of rocks and you have to learn how to kind of dip and dive and block. And I think that just kind of things that would destroy most people’s lives or days, I mean, I’m very thankful that they can kind of roll off me like a duck and I just work through it. Tomorrow’s a new day.

Rob – Intrigue Media (18:47)
Yeah, that’s cool. I just, you know, listening, if you’re listening, sorry, for the folks that are listening to this, who are thinking things, and this is what we see a lot in terms of mindset over time, or at least with like size of business from a people point of view, because I think one of the things you said at very beginning about this relationship component is actually probably more profound.

when it comes to looking inwards. The relationship with yourself is probably the most important one because if that’s not right, it’s tough to build relationships with others.

Aaron Whitener (19:17)
I would agree with that.

Rob – Intrigue Media (19:18)
And so, you know, we, yeah, I’ve, I’ve meet people of all, you know, shape sizes, walks of life. Um, and, know, there’s mindsets of like, I can’t find anybody to help because everybody’s crap. Um, which, know, another level up from that is like, um, if you’re going to do it right, do it yourself. You know, I’ve got people, but nah, they don’t really know what they’re doing. Um, and then the next level up is that it’s like, you know, I train people, but then they leave.

So I’m not sure if I even want to do that anymore. Cause there’s like this, it’s starting to become jaded. It’s like, you know, I really tried this idea of pouring myself into people and now it’s biting me. And then next level off of that is like, I’m going to train everybody and that some of them are going to leave and it’s going to suck, but it’s part of the thing I’m going to keep trucking. then, and then, you know, in that there’s more and more levels to it, but it can’t. Yeah. And then eventually there’s some, you know, I’m here to serve. It’s like, what can I do to make everybody’s life better?

Aaron Whitener (20:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there’s so many levels to that for sure.

Rob – Intrigue Media (20:17)
Whether it’s my team, my employees, my community. And what I find fascinating is the people that have that mindset tend to become or are the biggest companies in the way that they want to be. Like they don’t necessarily want to be that biggest company in the world, but they’re sitting at 27 million or they’re sitting at 8 million or they’re sitting at three and a half million. And they’re just like pumped about it and looking to serve. And so like for you and your journey from you and a mower to 150 people.

Were you always with that mindset of like attitude of gratitude and, you know, bring joy to the team, or is it something that kind of evolved as you, as you evolve?

Aaron Whitener (20:56)
I would say it definitely evolved. Yeah, I’m still evolving even today. I I try to just spend time, you know, reading and listening to things and just learning how to be a better leader and, you know, be more of a servant leader like you’re talking about. You know, I’m…

I’m in a good place and you know, the people around me are great and I want them to grow and kind of take that mindset as well. Like if they’re not growing, like if you look at a tree, you know, I mean, you basically have to either a tree is not going to stay stagnant. It’s either going to wilt up and die or it’s going to grow and there’s no stagnant trees and we’re in the landscape business. So I use it as the reference. It’s like my people have to either grow with us or they’re going to kind of stay stagnant, which eventually will

you know, will delither if that makes sense.

Rob – Intrigue Media (21:45)
Yeah.

Aaron Whitener (21:46)
You know, so I mean, we take a lot of people to, you know, we get, we do all kinds of stuff, to be honest with you. I really can’t say just one thing, but we’re always trying to come up with new ways to just train our teams, take them to events, just have outings with their families and just try to invest in them to teach them that, you know, we’re in this together. We’re not a family, but we’re a team, you know, and a team’s going to kind of trade players occasionally throughout time.

but we’re always trying to add value to the team. So we’re doing that by developing them so that they can add value to their team below them or around them.

Rob – Intrigue Media (22:26)
Yeah, that’s cool. So there was a couple of things you said there,

which is a theme and everything that you kind of say, I want to ask a bunch of questions on a bunch of things you just said. and, first, this idea of family versus team, cause in a team, you know, if inevitably you’re going to trade some players, also in a team environment, if the quarterback is throwing an interception 90 % of the time, probably getting benched. and so

What is it that distinguishes the family oriented culture that some people speak of? Like we’re a family here versus the team culture that you’re referring to. Like how do you differentiate the two?

Aaron Whitener (22:52)
I

I would say in a team, everybody has to add value. I mean, that’s just the bottom line. Those players are selected to be part of that team.

because they have a purpose, they have a mission, they have a goal, or they have a skill that adds value to that team. And I think that’s the difference between family. Family is, you know, it’s great, we love each other, we’re gonna take care of each other, and I think there’s an aspect of that within team. You’re gonna take care of your teammates to a degree, whereas, you know, family, not gonna, you can’t really trade them off. You can’t really trade family. So it’s like in a team.

environment, you’re going always put the best players out there. You’re going to always coach them. You’re going to always go to practice. You’re going to kind of go to bat with them and try to win together. And I think that’s the key is we have to win together. If we’re out there playing the game individually, it’s going to be a long season.

Rob – Intrigue Media (23:49)
Totally agree. I think

that with that in mind, if you look at, a football team and the sport of football, is quite, I mean, for anybody first in the sport, it’s like, you know what a running back does, you know what a quarterback does, you know what a receiver does, a tight end, you know what, like, these defined positions have defined roles that are trying to execute and accomplish a very common goal. And if you were to take that

idea and lay it onto a landscape organization. In theory, it’s just like, of course, that’s exactly what we need to do. We have a common goal. Wait, what is the goal? We all have defined roles. Wait, I do five different roles. I’m a wide receiver running back and sometimes I throw the ball. So how do you take that approach and then bring it into your organization so that there is clarity?

Aaron Whitener (24:40)
Yeah, I think it all goes back to just that vision we talked about. I cast that vision and I say, hey, this is what we’re trying to accomplish. these are the goals and the metrics and the key indicators of if we’re on track or off track. And you just kind of keep implementing that and reminding the team of where we’re going and what these metrics mean and what these, I call them KPIs, but you know what I mean, whatever they are to different organizations.

Just keep putting it out there, keep going towards the goal, keep coaching, and basically just get the team to go in the same direction towards the vision that’s been set out. But they have to know what that is, obviously. So that’s your job as a leader.

Rob – Intrigue Media (25:18)
and how often.

Well, yeah, I think that that

so that, you know, if you’re speaking to a bunch of leaders right now listening to you, if you could give some specificity around what it looks like to have a vision that’s clear and like what people like, if you were like, I think I know what I’m trying to do, but like, how should I communicate it or what is it that I’m looking for? Like they’re grasping at it. Like it’s like they don’t have oxygen to breathe it in. What would you say to them to give them something tangible that they could take?

Aaron Whitener (25:48)
I mean, when I did, when I kind of did mine, I just took some time alone and just, spent a few weeks just kind of thinking and jotting down notes of like, Hey, this is what I want. This is where I feel like we can go. you know, some of those things are, definitely out there, I would say. And then some are more realistic, but I tried to compile it in a way that, you know, I could deliver it in a meaningful way to them where, know, they feel like they’re invested in it and there’s.

some sort of outcome that’s gonna benefit them as well. If it’s all just, you know, for me, then, you know, if I can’t put anything in it for them, then I don’t feel like they would be as much bought into it. So I tried to just think about, you know, the things that I felt like would be good for the company, but also at the same time would have long-term benefits to them to invest.

Rob – Intrigue Media (26:39)
What would

an example be of that?

Aaron Whitener (26:42)
I mean, so basically, you know, obviously just bonus programs would be the number one. mean, everybody wants more money. So yeah, I mean, it’s just the simplest way to kind of include them in the results. You know, hey, if we meet these goals, meet these metrics, whatever it is, however you want to set that up, you know, this is how it’s going to, you know, come back around to you at the end of the year, at the end of the quarter, however you set that up again, to where, you know, the immediate and most, you know,

Rob – Intrigue Media (26:47)
Great, that’s simple. Yeah.

Aaron Whitener (27:11)
not impactful, but the most recognizable way to give them something for their efforts is in a bonus and monetarily.

Rob – Intrigue Media (27:20)
Yeah, agreed.

And then in terms of a bonus approach, is there a complexity baked into it in terms of individual contribution as well as team contribution and then organizational contribution? Or is it simple? Like, how do you kind of look at it?

Aaron Whitener (27:33)
So for us, it’s based on position and then division and then overall. So there’s kind of just different, you know, we base their bonuses on the position they’re in. So if you’re like an operations manager, there’s a certain percentage of payback that you would get for hitting X metrics within your division. And then also it rolls up into the company has to be successful for each individual.

Rob – Intrigue Media (28:02)
And so if, if somebody crushes their position inside their division, but the overall organization doesn’t do well, how does that impact the person’s bonus?

Aaron Whitener (28:11)
So I mean, it wouldn’t be good for them, unfortunately. I mean, if the company doesn’t make money, then there’s no money to give. Yeah, there’s no share. Thankfully, we’ve never had that happen where the companies never made any money. So we can say we’ve never had that year. But yeah, I mean, there’s definitely a minimum threshold that you need to make as an organization because of CapEx and different things that you have to pay for every year.

Rob – Intrigue Media (28:18)
share. Yeah. ⁓

Right.

Aaron Whitener (28:38)
that you just have to make a certain amount of, I’d just say a certain percentage that is gonna be basically your bottom line percentage of, anything above this we can share, but here’s our minimum requirement to stay in business for 2026, essentially.

Rob – Intrigue Media (28:54)
Yeah, that’s cool. And then so I’ve heard a lot of people say or think that, you know, sharing financial information with the team is like, I’m not doing that. Some people are way more open about it and run full open book management. We’re kind of in that line here. Like we do full on financial deep dives and try to educate people on what a current ratio actually means and why it’s important. And so like, how do you guys look at financial?

communication and kind of acumen inside Ace.

Aaron Whitener (29:23)
So we.

We basically look at it on a monthly basis. We just look at a budget to actual on a monthly basis with the leadership team and some of the operations level and basically just go over each individual division where we’re at, what we’re doing margin-wide. So we look at everything in gross margins mostly. So they’re looking at gross margins and then expenses. So those are the two big things they can contribute to. They can’t control the cost of insurance. That’s something that I have to manage, but you know,

things that they can control day to day are gross margin and expenses. So labor costs obviously are tied into gross margin heavily and that’s the one thing that they’re really you know tracking on a day-to-day basis actually to make sure that those numbers and if everybody hits gross margin everybody manages expenses then we’re all moving forward and we’ll be where we want to be at the end of the month and then there there’s a full update every month.

Rob – Intrigue Media (30:18)
to the entire team.

Aaron Whitener (30:19)
No, only to the leadership team and then some of the operations team. So it’s the top 20 % are seeing that information. Yeah, the top 20 % are seeing that information, but the rest of them are mostly just looking at day to day metrics that are mostly built around, you know, issues, gross margin, times, man hours, things like that.

Rob – Intrigue Media (30:25)
Gotcha.

Yeah, you’re still talking 35 people, whatever it might be.

productivity.

Yeah, okay, awesome.

And how long have you been doing it like that?

Aaron Whitener (30:49)
⁓ shoot. At least, I mean, we’ve been using some software platform for about five years. So probably somewhere around seven or eight years. We’ve been we’ve been sharing. We’ve been we’re using Aspire.

Rob – Intrigue Media (30:57)
Are you willing to share the platform?

Yeah, OK, cool.

Aaron Whitener (31:02)
Yeah. So we’ve been using Aspire for about five years and it’s been really helpful in just keeping track of the numbers on a day-to-day basis. mean, it just kind of, you know, we used to do Excel spreadsheets, you know, everything had to be updated every day. It was more about how fast we could put it in the computer so we could get the information out to the guys in the field of like where they’re at hours wise and gross margin. Whereas now it’s just every morning that you’re.

Rob – Intrigue Media (31:26)
It’s like real time almost.

Aaron Whitener (31:27)
Yeah, they get a report every morning says actual versus estimated for yesterday. And it’s really helped kind of keep things in play and keep us more close on track to targets.

Rob – Intrigue Media (31:39)
Well, it’s interesting to me, you go back to sports analogy too. Like if you’re down four, two, you got to step up, you know, or if you’re down 14, 12 in the fourth quarter with two minutes left, you got to get a field goal and get ready position to do so. But if you don’t know how you’re doing on the scoreboard, it’s tough to figure out what to focus on.

Aaron Whitener (31:56)
Yeah.

Yeah. If everything’s important and nothing’s important.

Rob – Intrigue Media (32:01)
Yeah, I mean, and again, cliche to say, but not cliche to live out the way it’s supposed to be. Um, you know, I think we were in a, I was talking to a company that had seven annual priorities and this is a company of five people. And I was like, I don’t know. Might be bit much, but whatever.

Aaron Whitener (32:14)
wow.

Rob – Intrigue Media (32:19)
Okay, this full circle on this relationship piece and the evolution of yourself as a leader. What would you say, like you’re talking about the idea of reading books, you you go to an events. What is the biggest thing that you’re doing to try to build yourself up to be able to serve others more?

Aaron Whitener (32:35)
I would say just sounds kind of cliche maybe but I’ve just been way more involved in my church the last…

probably two or three years, and that’s really just kind of helped me, I would say kind of be more outgoing and just have a little bit better, more conscious relationships with people and just more acquaintances even. I don’t know, it’s been good for me. I’ve just been a lot more time invested in the church, and as a result, I think it’s just made me a little bit better person overall. So that’s one way, and then obviously just,

I listen to podcasts, I read books. I just do a lot of things and then I have some great people around me too that I can talk to and just friends, business friends, personal friends that I can just communicate with and you know, just get their feedback on some thoughts or ideas or just kind of life guidance sometimes.

Rob – Intrigue Media (33:26)
No, it’s cool. But

I mean, like the idea of building a relationship with yourself and others, I mean, you can’t do it if you don’t have the people to have relationships with. And so it almost sounds like it’s like scaffolding for you. You’ve got these support mechanisms all around as you’re building this thing. So you’re not having to try to figure out how to like rock climb and like, you know, establish how to build a wall while you’re on a rope.

Aaron Whitener (33:32)
Yes.

I learned

a long time ago, it’s a lot easier to ask a question than try to figure it out. You know, I didn’t learn that early enough. I will say that it took me a long time to get through that one. But now, you know, even in this industry or with friends, there’s just, there’s people that have already been where you’re going. And it’s like, just talk to them, just ask questions, you know, just be friendly and just, you know, it’ll save you a lot of time and headache and heartache. So that’s my

Rob – Intrigue Media (33:56)
sweet.

Yeah. Blood pressure and stress

and all the things that come along with it. ⁓ it’s, it’s also one of the, I think hallmarks of the green industry period about how open everybody is to share with each other.

Aaron Whitener (34:14)
Yep. Yep. I mean.

It is. Like I didn’t go to events probably till like…

I mean, after COVID, I would say it was probably 2021. When we got on Aspire, we went to our first event there and that kind of really opened my eyes. Like, oh wow, there’s a lot of people. We all do the same thing and they’re all different, you know, places in the country and the communication’s just so much more open when you’re at these larger events. so I’ve met some great people, great friends, and it’s been really, really valuable to just have those resources.

Rob – Intrigue Media (34:57)
Yeah, it’s amazing. so then going back to this idea of relationships and knowing that we’re coming to the end of the episode, the kind of the first thing you talked about was like relationships with your employees. And, and so if someone’s listening, you know, and they’re thinking to themselves, you know, want great relationships with my employees, but I know that there’s boundaries and I don’t want to necessarily cross them. And I want to make sure I’m the best I can be for people.

What are some tips or tactics you can give somebody listening on how to deepen a relationship with somebody? And I bet you it’s not as complicated as they think.

Aaron Whitener (35:29)
No, I would say it’s just be personable. mean, just ask questions again, you know, just communicate. mean, just a smile and a wave in the morning will go a long way. mean, typically when you’re the owner or, you know, a higher level manager in the company, there’s just a million things going on in the time that you have with those guys and girls. Like if you’re getting morning rollout going, there’s, you know, there’s a lot, it’s kind of the hustle bustle. So to take time to just communicate and kind of ask somebody about their week.

or what they have planned for the weekend. That’s just valuable time. And I know it’s hard to do, but I think it’s important. You know, do I do it every day? No, like I’m not perfect at it either. But over time, those little interactions will build up and you’ll build a relationship. You’ll get to know somebody’s family and their kids’ names and just learn more about them. And you know, that relationship will hopefully blossom into a good working relationship where there’s a mutual respect.

where they understand where we’re going, they understand what we’re trying to do, and in regards, you’re able to build them up and hopefully teach them some skills that, as you said earlier, you know, they may leave and take to another company, which is okay. If they feel like that opportunity is more conducive to their, you know, their growth, then that would be fine. But…

We want to try to obviously build relationships with people that are happy with their positions here that we can build and grow and utilize in a different way in the future, but it does take time.

Rob – Intrigue Media (37:02)
Yeah, well, and it’s cool, though, even just the way you broke that down, like even

simply, it’s not like you have to go, you know, spend a weekend with a team member. It’s not like you have to go take them out for dinner with their spouse. It’s like these little micro interactions that happen in compound over time, you know, build a rapport. But I think there’s a lot of people maybe listening to this that are like, I don’t have the time to do that. And then it’s like, well, it’s like, I’m not sure if you if you don’t have the time to not do it. Like it’s.

What do you say to somebody who’s like too busy to say hi and smile?

Aaron Whitener (37:33)
I mean, that would be tough, that’s tough. They need to look at their circle, who’s working with them and try to delegate some of that off a little bit. But it is tough. mean, these businesses are busy typically. I haven’t gone to any company where they weren’t moving and grooving during the day. That’s kind of what we need to do to be successful, to be honest with you, is we have to keep moving forward. But I don’t really know what the tips or tricks would be. I would just say just take the time to do it.

I if you don’t invest in them, they’re probably not gonna be somebody that’s gonna invest in your company or in you or be around very long. I mean, people wanna be where they feel welcome and comfortable and if you’re not investing in them or somebody’s not within the company, most likely they’re just gonna lose interest and move on to somewhere else.

Rob – Intrigue Media (38:19)
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more.

One last piece, then I got to wrap up. ⁓ The visioning piece, you said that you had taken notes for weeks. It’s not like he sat down for an hour and wrote out your vision.

Aaron Whitener (38:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

So no, no, no, definitely not.

Rob – Intrigue Media (38:35)
So just give people some context around that. you know, cause I think a lot of people think they can just put it in their calendar and get it done. but I just don’t know if that’s the case with something like visioning.

Aaron Whitener (38:46)
Yeah, I mean, I would say it’s definitely a process that I’ve never done before. ⁓

But I just needed to get clear for everybody else on where we were trying to go. And I mean, had this, I’m an entrepreneur, so I had a lot of ideas, let’s just be real. But I can’t do all of it myself, nor do I want to. I mean, it’s not very much fun by yourself all the time. So I just spend a lot of time. Honestly, I would just kind of take about an hour here and there and just think about.

Where do I wanna go? Where do I see myself in 10 years? Where do I see myself in 15 years? know, start way out and then start trying to reel it back. And then if you say, hey, I wanna be here in 20 years, ask yourself, can you do it in 10? You know, what does it look like if you do it in 10?

I know, I don’t have the greatest advice of how I did it. I just kind of sat down and thought through it, said, these are the things I want and this is what I think I can accomplish. And, you know, I think this would be valuable for the team around me. Cause you know, like I said earlier, a tree is either growing or dying. It’s not stagnant. They don’t just stay the same. And I think that’s the same in business. It’s hard to stay the same, especially in this industry when things are changing very quickly around us.

are not getting less sophisticated and smaller, they’re getting bigger and more sophisticated. So in order to keep up with them, you have to be able to develop the people around you to do that.

Rob – Intrigue Media (40:10)
Yeah, I love it. Well said. Podcast author speaker that kind of gives you like inspiration or aha moments that you’d want to share somebody we’re checking out.

Aaron Whitener (40:20)
I mean, I always, I listen to a lot of different people online, so there’s no one person. I’m like, I’m just a very, you know, diverse person. I mean, even with my music, like I just listen to all different genres. There’s no one that I say is my favorite.

I don’t know, mean, we kind of got on traction about five years ago, we started doing that. like, you know, it took us a year or so, maybe a little longer to kind of build it out and just kind of implement. But I mean, we have, you know, leadership L10s, we have operations L10s, we have sales and operations L10s. So we have all these different meetings set up that other people are running.

and they’re invested in it and they’re looking at the metrics and they’re kind of building out their own path towards the ultimate vision and goal. I would say, know, Gina Wickman, obviously anything that he’s been involved in, I would say adds value to organizations. If you’re looking for just motivational type stuff, you know, I don’t know. It’s just such a big genre. hate to, you know.

Rob – Intrigue Media (41:23)
I don’t know what’s one that just pops in your head.

I you gave us Gina Wickman, so I think you’re off the hook.

Aaron Whitener (41:27)
Yeah, mean, Gino Wickman would probably be the one that I would say adds the most value. You know, on the spot, I just don’t think of, I’m bad with names. it’s terrible. Like, terrible how bad.

Rob – Intrigue Media (41:36)
good.

So you started

you started with the podcast with the biggest constraints relationships and you end the podcast with I’m terrible with names. ⁓

Aaron Whitener (41:46)
Yes, it is so bad. Like that

is one thing that I, I don’t know, my mind just does not hold onto people’s names very well. I’ve tried different tricks and it’s just, I got to meet you a few times before I get it. And you know, when you’re listening to YouTube or Spotify, you know, I mean, there’s some really good podcasts out there that.

Rob – Intrigue Media (42:07)
Whatever,

Geno Wickman Traction’s awesome, and if you want to get it to your team so they can understand what’s going on, what the heck is EOS is a great resource too. Yeah. Anyway, we’re out of time. It’s been 45 minutes plus. I wish we could go longer, and I’d want to do another one with you if we get the opportunity. I really appreciate you time to do this.

Aaron Whitener (42:13)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay.

I don’t know about that.

After you listen to this one, you might change your mind. I was all over the place, but.

Rob – Intrigue Media (42:30)
All I know is that the more notes I take usually is indication of the quality of the show and I’ve got two pages here. So I just appreciate, I appreciate man. Thanks so much for doing this and everybody for listening to another episode. All right. All right. See everybody.

Aaron Whitener (42:35)
I hope so, I hope so.

Yeah, no problem. I appreciate it.

Thanks.