Dominating 2026: AI & Ad Spend Tips with Rob Murray

Here is the full transcript from the audio conversation provided:

Carol Wyman: Hello everybody and welcome to From the Ground Up. I’m Carol Wyman with Outdoor Coffee Shop, and today I am joined with Rob Murray from Intrigue—and uh, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Intrigue?

Rob Murray: Yeah, Rob Murray, one of the co-founders here at Intrigue. We’ve been in the marketing game for 18 years, but we’ve transformed the company a bunch of times as we’ve done it. And the most recent transformation was niching down from like a “jack-of-all, master-of-none” local marketing company into a vertically oriented landscape marketing company for North America. We’ve been doing that for the better part of five years specifically.

And it was all kind of around the idea that there’s that age-old quote, right? Like Bruce Lee, you know, “I fear not the man that practiced 10,000 kicks, I fear the man that practiced one kick 10,000 times.” And so we spent many years trying to find our spot in terms of a niche, and we tried a couple of other ones which didn’t necessarily fit what we’re all about. And then we had the opportunity to stumble upon a couple of landscape shows and found our people. So we’ve always been around to exist to serve entrepreneurs and bring like a gold standard to marketing they can trust. And then with landscaping, we just layered on like a really good group of people.

Carol Wyman: That’s awesome. And I think that, you know, even though landscaping wasn’t your first dive into things, I think you can bring all your experience from all those industries and really serve the landscaping industry really well. Because it’s really, you know—I feel like marketing is similar across many industries, at least that’s what I have found. And so I think with the landscaping niche, I think there’s the sky’s the limit for sure. So getting down to it, what were the most surprising digital marketing trends in 2025 for the landscaping and outdoor space?

Rob Murray: Yeah, I mean, I’m not sure if it’s surprising as much as it’s like very evident. So if you look at Google Ads as a way to bring in prospects and leads, not all budgets are created equal. So essentially, we found that people spending between $50,000 and $80,000 a year in Google Ads had the optimal return on investment or return on ad spend. And so it’s like if you’re spending let’s say $5,000 to $6,000 a month on average, you’re kind of in the wheelhouse in terms of like a multiple of return. Over $100,000 a year, the actual return on ad spend went down as a percentage, but the overall aggregate number is still higher because you’re getting in more prospects. But if you’re spending like $500 to $1,500 a month, it’s almost a waste of money. So that was a—that was stark in terms of how clear the evidence was over like 120 accounts across all different states and in Canada.

And then the other one is LSAs. There’s a huge opportunity for Local Service Ads and a lot of people aren’t taking the opportunity. And they’re kind of like the spirit of them is to like help somebody when they’re like in need of something right away. They’re really good for like plumbers, electricians, and HVAC companies, and that’s kind of like why they were brought to market. But a lot of people just don’t understand that you don’t need to just use them for that. And if you run LSAs, the odds of them bringing you $10,000 or $20,000 jobs is actually quite high. So that was a little surprising in a really good way.

And then this isn’t a surprise, but it’s definitely something that we can see more and more. We manage, like I said, like 120 accounts plus, and we use an attribution approach so we understand where every lead comes from. And we’re starting to see ChatGPT as a lead source for the first time in history. So I think it’s still less than 1% of leads come from ChatGPT directly, but it’s definitely something we can’t be ignoring. It’s going to go up for sure.

And then the last thing I think is just pricing transparency. We’ve built out pricing calculators for people’s websites and every single time we do it, the quality of leads that come through those forms is really, really high. So like the buyer intent for someone to fill out a pricing calculator to like get a sense of what a landscape renovation or construction project might cost them just really kind of demonstrates really, really strong buying intent. And then also because there aren’t very many companies that give opportunities to figure out what the pricing is going to be, so that’s a huge opportunity.

Carol Wyman: Wow. Well, we can dig into a lot of these things. You had mentioned LSAs. What size company would you recommend for LSAs? You said the plumbers and the electricians, but how—how relevant is that between the small and larger companies?

Rob Murray: Well, the data says they work for a $500,000 business and an $80 million business. It’s impressive. Yeah, so it’s—but I know people though that have a bit more of a boutique approach. They want $100,000-plus jobs only. Probably not as effective there. But for people that are trying to keep their crews busy all year long and they’re cool to have a two-day, $12,000 job in between larger projects, it can be really effective. We’ve seen the return on investment for LSAs, you know, be like 12-to-1 on average.

Carol Wyman: Well, that’s great. I mean, it’s interesting because, you know, I’ve been in marketing a long time and I don’t know if I’ve used LSAs as specifically as you’re talking about, so I think that’s really—that’s great. Switching gears to Google Ads, and I know that every year Google Ads change and the strategy behind them changes. And, you know, what lessons can companies take—I mean, you said that the spend has been, you know, crazy almost with the Google Ads—what do you see them, you know, improving in 2026 to be able to kind of get that sweet spot for your ROI?

Rob Murray: Well, the biggest thing though, I mean, like all Google Ads lead to a website. I mean, for the most part. You can do a lead gen campaign, it’s a little bit different, but for the most part all ads point to a website. And so a lot of people don’t have their websites right. I think that’s the biggest thing people need to get right before you start bringing people to them.

And what I mean by that is that the type of jobs they want to go get aren’t necessarily broken out as specific landing pages. And even in those landing pages, most of the content is about the company: “This is what we do, this is how we do it, this is who we are, this is how long we’ve been around for, this is our process, this is our approach.” And they’re missing the mark on like helping the customer see themselves in the experience.

And so letting people know that like typically there’s these problems that people have—like as an example for like a big landscape and pool renovation—it’s like you want to hang out with your grandkids but there’s no reason to come to your house. So now you’re thinking about building out an awesome backyard space so that your family can come hang out with you. And so it’s like knowing that that’s a problem and that we’ve addressed that problem for many other people—social proof, testimonials—and then here’s how we go about doing that with you every step of the way, guiding you to a beautiful backyard experience with your family. It’s just a much different approach than “We have a really good team and we’ve been doing this since 1976, hire us.”

Carol Wyman: No, I think that’s great advice. I think representing case studies and being able to really show the value without going into, you know—people don’t want to go to a website the last a few seconds if they can’t find what they’re looking for right away. So being able to have that landing page that shows them the value immediately and then they can go and say “Oh yeah, this was super interesting, I wonder what kind of company this is and how they work.” And then you can look into the, you know—to be able to grab them with a case study or testimonial, I think is just—there’s truly a value there.

Rob Murray: Testimonials and reviews are typically over-complicated. Even doing a call just like this with somebody about “What was it like working with our company? What was your life like before? Why did you decide on choosing us? And what was your life like after working with us?” 45-to-60 second response. You know, get like 50 of those over the next 12 months, clip them all together, and then put them on the core pages you want to get work for. And then you’ve got a video testimonial experience that someone can just rip through while they’re walking, driving, at work, at home.

You know, case studies can be a daunting task for some people in terms of putting together like “Here was the situation before,” in this beautiful PDF, and “This is all the things that we decided to do,” and then “This is what the outcome was,” and then there’s a sentence review. A lot of people are looking for like “Well, what does the person have to say about it? What does the person have to say about it?” And so using Zoom even to get client testimonials can be really, really simple.

Carol Wyman: Yeah, I love that approach and the attention span, let’s face it, has, you know—people don’t need that much time to look at a PDF, they’d rather hear it and know it’s happening right then. So I can definitely appreciate that.

So moving on to—you had mentioned AI, and you know, certainly there are AI-driven platforms like ChatGPT. So what key strategies stood out for businesses optimizing that type of AI content in 2025?

Rob Murray: Yeah, that’s cool. I mean, there’s kind of two sides to the coin with everything AI. One is how to use the tools yourself as a business, and then two is how do you make it so that people who are using those tools find you. And so for the sake of today, we can talk a bit more about like how to make sure you’re getting found by these things.

One of the things though that’s helpful is that the golden rule around helping people make good decisions is still valid. So like as a business, if you’re trying to put content into the internet around helping people make good decisions—how can I make you better? How can I inform you better? How can I be helpful?—that’s still like kind of a golden rule that really I don’t think should ever go away because it’s like you’re trying to help a human. You always have to remember there’s a human.

But that all being said, there are definitely like formats of content that we can use to make it so that it’s easier to be found and summarized. And so essentially, ChatGPT like most people is actually lazy and it wants to try to find things easily. And same with Gemini, you know, in the AI mode and summaries that kind of stuff. So writing content with listicles and frequently asked questions—and so like there’s like summaries kind of baked into the approach—the format of the content itself is a summary, makes it really easy for engines to grab it and show you as like an authority.

There’s an acronym though that people might want to keep in mind, which is E-E-A-T. So it’s Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trust. And so how can you position your business as an experienced expert with authority and trust? There’s a lot of ways to do it, but essentially what we need to do is have the world tell these robots that you’re trustworthy and an authority in your space.

We do that by getting mentioned on all different websites pointing to us. There’s an age-old approach—and by age-old I mean whatever 20 years—about getting good quality backlinks from like really good strong websites that have high domain authority. So like for example if you were to have your business written about on the New York Times website and pointed to you, it’d be like “Oh, these people are legit.” Like robots trust New York Times—you know, whether people should or not, different story—but the robots trust that as an authority of news.

And then like media mentions locally. If you’re involved in associations and like fundraisers, making sure that you’re getting at least a little bit of a shoutout—it doesn’t have to be massive. Social media mentions. When the world’s talking about you in a positive light, it essentially tells the internet and everything that crawls it that you’re a source to be trusted. And I think that’s really important.

And then a lot of people forget that most landscape companies are typically local—and by local I mean within let’s say an hour’s drive of their shop or they want to be that way anyway—and getting involved in the community. Like being on boards, being a part of fundraisers, donating community gardens, like actually being involved in a community is something that goes a really long way. And so I think a lot of people just forget about it or don’t want to necessarily go out network and like “shake hands and kiss babies” as they say. But I think it’s like—yes, there’s this crazy thing that’s changing the world we live in, which is AI, and then also the fundamentals still ring true. So don’t forget about them.

Carol Wyman: Yeah, so AI is just one component of what you need to do. You know, if you want to utilize platforms for that, you need to be able to really walk the walk and not just be, what you said, kind of lazy about your approach to it because it’s a full package of what you want to do to make your business better. I can definitely appreciate that.

Rob Murray: Yeah, and a lot of people quickly on this one, you know, are having their team write blogs for their business and they’re just using straight prompts from ChatGPT to write content, which is actually pretty poor. And so one of the things that’s really simple to do is just like interview subject matter experts inside the company. You know, whether it’s an owner, a designer, an architect, you know, even like a foreman. Just interview them to understand like “What’s it like working out in the field? What’s it like in terms of designing landscapes for these types of purposes? What should a homeowner or person that’s looking to buy consider before they hire somebody?” Using the subject matter expert answers to prompt a tool to build an article goes a long way.

Carol Wyman: Right, and I think internally it saves time by organizing your thoughts or organizing your approach, but it should not be the end-all-be-all for everything that you’re doing.

Rob Murray: Well no, because you have access to the same tool and if we both write the same article, it looks weird.

Carol Wyman: Right, true, very true. One of the things that has really been around for over 20 years is sustainability. So I know that there are trends that impact marketing efforts and you know, what practices should businesses prioritize in their messaging around sustainability?

Rob Murray: Yeah, well it’s a really good point because the search demand for this type of stuff is increasing year-over-year. In last 12 months it’s like a average of 25% increase for all things sustainable landscape practices, like xeriscaping, even just words like “sustainable landscape company.”

So it’s kind of like a two-part answer in that if you run a company that has sustainable practices, the opportunity to communicate that up-front would be—it’s right in front of you. And most of our clients that have sustainable practices don’t talk about it too much.

And then there’s the second layer, which is much deeper, is that some people don’t operate this way yet. And so like there’s some fundamental operational approaches that need to be addressed in order to accommodate what people are looking for. And like different states and communities and different types of customers look for different types of things. You know, somebody who’s looking to put like a concrete family entertainment center in their backyard might not care too much about native plants.

So it’s like knowing your customer is really important, but regardless, the idea of sustainability is only increasing in demand. So I would say, you know, kind of to your point, even just bringing it up—like more and more people are looking for this stuff. The data is there, it’s not a matter of if, it’s just more like when is someone going to be asking you for it? And because a lot of people aren’t positioned well that way, it’s an area of opportunity to get into a window where there’s not a lot of crowded space.

Carol Wyman: Right, and I think that with sustainability, when there’s a tax rebate or if there’s some incentive, then it becomes an issue. But a lot of times, you know, if it’s a code or if it’s something that’s expected within a certain area—you know, if you’re in all, you know, every state is slightly different in that approach and that way—so I think if the tax, you know, if there’s kind of an incentive through a tax benefit that becomes—depending on where they’re at as far as their budget—that could play a role too.

Rob Murray: Yeah, for sure. But I mean you can see it though, like the search demand is up, you know, from—if you look at the USA, there was something like 60,000 searches for sustainable landscaping companies ish. And there’s like a number of like offshoots of that, but that’s like the umbrella that it’s under. And it went to like 84,000 in 2025. So it’s like a legit 28 or 29% increase in the last 12 months. I think it was 25 in the early rolling 12 months and then over the last season, like it’s ever-increasing. So it’s a really good opportunity. It’s just that some people don’t care, you know, in terms of the companies themselves. It’s a great opportunity in front of them.

Carol Wyman: Right, right, absolutely. You can’t force people to care unless you know, it’s mandated somehow, but—

Rob Murray: It’s a great opportunity in front of them.

Carol Wyman: Right, right, absolutely. What were some common mistakes that you saw businesses make in their digital marketing efforts last year, and how can they avoid them in 2026?

Rob Murray: Well, honestly, the biggest mistake is they don’t follow up with their leads or pick up their phone. So you spend all this money and you want results, and then you don’t pick up the phone. And so I think there’s a mindset that is the big mistake of like “Okay, I’m going to spend all this money and I’m going to grow,” or “I’m going to spend all this money and I’m going to get good projects,” but you still have to work the leads.

And so like we have a guarantee working with us that if we don’t deliver the promise—if we don’t deliver the results we promise within 10 months, we work for free until we do. And in, you know, the last 18 months it’s happened with two customers we’ve had to work for free. The reason I bring this up though is because part of our guarantee is you have to answer three out of four phone calls. If you don’t answer three out of four phone calls, the guarantee doesn’t apply because you just didn’t pick up the phone.

And this is where it gets interesting because you can hire somebody for $45,000 a year to just answer your phone and reply to form submissions. And if you have like SMS, you know, lead flow where you can text people, then that would be it, but the job is just that. Meaning they don’t get given projects, they don’t do things like leave the office and not answer the phone during the work time—like it’s their dedicated lead response person. If you pay someone $45,000 a year and you have a dedicated lead responder, do you think you’re going to close $45,000 in deals? More than you would have if you didn’t have that person? I’d say the answer is like 100% yes. Would you close $100,000 or more? I’d say 100% yes, because the lead response time on all of these companies is actually quite poor.

We have some exceptions, like there are some clients that we work with that are phenomenal, but it’s definitely an exception to the rule, not like the norm. And so it’s just like—what are we doing here if we’re spending all this money? The biggest mistake people are making is that they’re not following up with their leads quickly and consistently. And so it’s five to eight times that you need to touch a lead when they inquire to get them to actually engage. It’s not—we hear all the time it’s like “Someone—oh I followed up with them, they never got back to me.”

Okay, how many times? “Well, I emailed them, but they never got back to me.” And then we secret shop our customers too to make sure their sales process is on point. And so the first time we do it, it’s usually a lot of area of opportunity. And then by like the third time we do it, they’re like “Okay, their game’s getting a bit tighter.” But like when people inquire and you don’t respond or you don’t pick up the phone, what are they doing? They’re going to the next person, and then the next. And you can stop it by answering the phone.

So it’s not necessarily the answer you’re looking for based on the question you asked, but it’s something that people need to consider really, really strongly because it’s just—it’s just leakage and lost money.

Carol Wyman: It’s so “in your face” accurate too, that everything starts with people. Like everything starts with the right person and then the process. Because you could put a process in place and you don’t have people that are going to be responsible for that, then it doesn’t even matter. So you know, I always find people are the most—are imperative, the right person in the right seat is so important for any success or any of your goals, but especially for following up with leads. So yeah, I interrupted you, so go ahead, I just had to touch about that too.

Rob Murray: No, it’s all good. And there’s some mindset misnomers around like being pushy. So it’s like “Why would I follow up with somebody five to eight times in like a four-day period?” And like the idea is like “I don’t want to come across like a pushy salesperson.” Which—and everybody if you ask them what is a salesperson, how do you define salesperson? They’re like “Oh, pushy, sleazy, liar,” like we have all these negative connotations with sales. And so it’s actually quite simple to just be like “You know, hey Carol, I saw that you inquired yesterday, I reached out, haven’t heard back. Want to make sure you’re taken care of and that you know we haven’t forgotten about you.” Next day, same thing, “Still haven’t heard back, maybe this isn’t a priority or you’re really busy right now. Let me know either way. I’m going to keep bugging you until I hear otherwise, because I want to make sure you know you’re taken care of, we don’t forget about our customers.” There’s nothing pushy about that.

Carol Wyman: Right, it’s the approach. Or else giving them valuable information: “Hey, I noticed you mentioned this, this is an article that you could read or do,” just show that you know and understand what their business is, what they’re trying to be successful at, and being the answer to them.

Rob Murray: Yeah, totally. No, it’s all good. And then in terms of the actual ads themselves that they’re making is like a lot of the—it’s like the ad structure. I’m not going to get into the technical nature of it all. But a lot of people don’t set up their structure for success—they have all their services under one campaign instead of splitting them all out.

And then the biggest mistake people make is they don’t have an attribution platform to measure where every lead comes from and whether it turned into a quote or into dollars. And so like there’s a lot of conversion talk—like cost per conversion—and so in our world, a conversion is a phone call or a form submission, it’s an inquiry. It’s the only conversion we care about. Everything else is vanity metrics, like four pages per visit or they went to our “Contact Us” page and viewed it—you know, some people measure these as conversions and they’re not. And so it’s like we could be spending a lot of money on getting people to visit our “Contact Us” page, but they’re not turning into deals. And so like there’s attribution and reporting to see what every lead—where it all came from and what turned into money is a huge opportunity a lot of people miss.

Carol Wyman: Yeah, that’s—that is really important and I’m glad that you brought that up because they could be going to a page that isn’t going to help convert them to anything. You know, I think when they—when someone fills out a form or they’re like, you know, they’re making an effort, then I think that shows that there’s interest and that they are convertible, really. Like—but if they’re just looking at your home page or “Contact Us” or they—you know, they don’t pull the trigger, then that is not a successful campaign or a call-to-action by any means. So I totally agree.

Rob Murray: Yeah, and how—how are you measuring it? So it’s—attribution is really, really important when digital marketing—a lot of people miss it.

Carol Wyman: Right, and I think people say “Well, you know what, I think this year this will be a better show and I know I’m going to get more leads from it.” But if you’re not actually being able to—you know, for whatever type of marketing you’re going, if you’re not able to track—track the success of it, you can’t plan for the future. And you could be wasting so much money year over year by not acknowledging that. So I totally agree.

Rob Murray: Yeah, and odds are you are wasting money if you’re not measuring that stuff.

Carol Wyman: Yeah, right, exactly. And just—how do you measure it? Like what kind of programs do you like to use? I know there’s so many ways to track, but is there one that you specifically like to be able to track?

Rob Murray: Yeah, so we have a sales and lead tracker system, it’s white-labeled “WhatConverts.” It’s like whatever $200-$300 a month if you buy it on your own. Once it’s set up properly and you set up your campaigns properly, it’ll show you every single lead, every single phone call, every single form submission. And then we integrate it into their—like estimating or project tool management system.

So like for LMN for landscapers or Aspire, could be like if they have a HubSpot instance that they’re running. But we make it so that anywhere they have deals being built or quotes being sent, that it all syncs. So we—I don’t need to get into the technical nature of it all—but we have like an ID that we put into their system when it comes—when a lead comes through. And as a project gets quoted and “Closed Won” or “Closed Lost,” it feeds back, tells us what turned into the sales, and then what’s really cool is that that system then feeds Google Ads. And so it says “Hey, optimize for the sale, optimize for revenue, don’t optimize for anything else.” And so you do that for a year or two and you have a—like an assassin for a Google Ads account. Like it’s pretty amazing.

Carol Wyman: Yeah, that’s really impressive. I love that, you know, you go that next step with your clients and you make sure that they have a place to be able to put these leads and be able to focus and be able to—to do something with them. I think that’s really great.

You know, there’s a lot of small businesses out there with smaller budgets. What advice do you have for them to be able to compete in this digital space?

Rob Murray: Yeah, cool. So can you give me an idea what smaller client would be? Like what’s the size of the company in terms of revenue from your perspective?

Carol Wyman: Um, you know, I think that, you know, a million dollars—a million dollars would be a smaller company.

Rob Murray: Yeah, so it’s let’s just assume you’re listening to this thing and you have a million-dollar business. Or $800,000 or $1.2 million, whatever, you’re a million bucks. First of all, congratulations, you’ve entered into a space where very few people get, so it’s like whatever 10% of companies ever get to a million, I think it’s less than that.

If you’re really busy and have no money—so like there’s no money to invest and you’re just running like crazy—you have a price problem.

If you’re making money and you have no time—no, if you’re not making a lot of money but you have time, you have a networking opportunity. So we would say get out and actively market. Specifically if you’re looking for high-end customers, go to the yacht clubs, private golf clubs, join boards, go to fundraising dinners, build relationships in your community with the people that have the money. It’s marketing 101, hang out with your customers.

And if you’re really busy and you’re making money and you want to keep growing, then you get into the digital space. So it’s kind of like the—it’s the last thing that you’re going to do to get to a million plus. And then once you’re there, it’s like 2% to 3% of overall revenue. So if you’re a million-dollar business, $30,000 should be marketing spend. And then you probably want to spend 60% or 70% of it between, for landscaping, between say March and June. So like spend a lot in a condensed period of time to build a bunch of lead flow instead of a trickle-charge throughout the year, because $2,500 a month throughout the year is not a lot.

And we would also look at it in stages. So we say okay, everybody needs to get to your wonderful, amazing, consumer-oriented, problem-education-oriented website. And then after website, we got to get into search because we want to be found when strangers are looking for us. We’re going to need Google reviews and we’re going to need visibility through Google Ads and SEO. And so like building that up first, then I’d get into paid ads, but I’d also make sure I have somebody on my team that likes using video and photos and have them on the job sites as much as possible.

Carol Wyman: Wow, that is a playbook right there.

Rob Murray: There’s a couple. We actually have one, if someone wants to go to intriguemedia.com/resources, there’s a zero-to-a-million-dollar playbook that they can get for free.

Carol Wyman: Wow, that’s great. Um, yeah, so I was going to ask you to—tell us about your website and tell us how they can contact you, so you just said that. Why don’t you repeat that for everybody?

Rob Murray: Well sure, you go to intriguemedia.com, click on resources. We have our own podcast, the “IM Landscape Growth Podcast,” if you want to listen to really successful entrepreneurs in the landscape space tell their stories about how they broke through the growth constraints that they experienced. And then there’s a bunch of resources—roadmaps, guides, playbooks for getting Google reviews, how to get from zero to a million, how to optimize your sales process. There’s a 2025 landscape marketing report that you can download for free. But there’s—there’s a bunch there. We’ve got videos all over the site if you want to get to know us before you reach out, but there’s a ton of resources. It’s really just to be a hub to help people figure out what’s next.

And we have a bunch of events. I think our next one is November 26th, a sales and marketing masterclass. We’re going to go through a lot of what we went through today, but just in a bit more depth.

Carol Wyman: Wow, so go to the website and look for that and you can sign up. I know that you won’t be disappointed at all. So that’s wonderful. Um, I was going to ask you, where can they find you—at events? Are you guys going to the Irrigation Show in December in New Orleans?

Rob Murray: No, no, our next show as a group will be Futurescapes in LA. And then—and then the season starts again. I don’t know, there’s a bunch we’re going to. But we—we put events on like lunch-and-learns and sales and marketing masterclasses, and our next one is November 26th.

Carol Wyman: Wow, so go to the website and look for that. Is there anything in closing that you want to add or you want to say to—to our audience?

Rob Murray: Uh, I would just, you know, it’s—word-of-mouth we see can get a company really, really far. And it’s kind of like a—this little black box that prints money. It’s like a magic box. And it takes years of doing good work for great clients to build it out. The only issue with word-of-mouth is that the black box is unpredictable—you don’t know when it’s going to pop money out. And it does every year, you just don’t know when. And so like building a black box that you can hit and it pops money out just creates a lot more of like a predictable and sustainable approach to growth.

But—but think about it over like a three-year time horizon. A lot of people sacrifice long-term results for short-term results. And they’re like “I need business in the next 90 days.” Well, then you put yourself in a tough spot. And so a lot of people that think long-term typically win. And so my ask to the audience is to start maybe looking at the time horizon of your business a little differently. Because if you—if you take that three-year approach and you start building foundational components to help you win in three years while everybody else is running for the next deal, you build a stronger company. And I think that’s a really important path to success.

Carol Wyman: Priceless advice right there from Rob Murray. I want to thank you for your time today. It was really great hearing—just the wealth of knowledge and just the vastness of what companies can do to put their best foot forward throughout the industry. So thank you for being here today and thank you audience for—for listening, and go outside and enjoy—enjoy the day.

Rob Murray: Thanks Carol Wyman, appreciate it.