Brad Stephenson: Build a Business That Runs Without You

Intrigue Media (00:31)
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the IM landscape growth podcast. Uh, today I have a very awesome guest, Brad Stephenson Thank you, Brad, for doing this. Uh, not only do you have the experience of two decades leading and running the crazy business in landscaping, uh, the green industry, but you also, um, have been coaching and speaking, um, which is kind of why I think it’s cool.

Brad Stephenson (00:41)
Thank you.

Intrigue Media (00:57)
A lot of times when we speak to owners, they have their perspective of what they’ve been through, but they don’t necessarily have other perspectives of working with a bunch of other people trying to do the same thing. So think that’s going be valuable in our conversation today. But before we get into it, just to help people understand some of the nuance, how did you end up growing this company and wanting to impact that 100,000 lives?

Brad Stephenson (01:18)
Sure,

yeah. So it’s funny. 20 years ago, I started at Newcastle as an apprentice. Just, you know, wheel and wheel barrels, starting from the ground and working my way up. But 20 years ago, I came in. were about $600,000 in revenue, had about eight employees. I’d worked at a company 10 years before that. Newcastle brought me over. And over the 20-year period, I knew there was ownership opportunity here. That’s why I came over.

⁓ but over that 20 year period, kept working my way up, taking on more responsibilities, helping the owners at the time, you know, reduce their stress. My, my win was always if they were laughing and they were happy, I was good. and as I, as I kept growing it, ⁓ yeah, I became the CEO of the company and now I’m majority shareholder with my partner right now, Brian Cucarro, who’s one of the founders, but, ⁓ obviously there are some twists and turns through that journey.

Intrigue Media (02:11)
Yeah, was gonna

say, it’s a pretty, pretty big jump.

Brad Stephenson (02:15)
Yeah, yeah, but you know, it’s, you know, it started off with minority ownership, you know, that was in 2014. And then, you know, I just kept pushing and my partner retired in 2018. He retired and you know, I took over. Yeah, so it just, it was about growing people, right? So even as I wasn’t an owner, I still treated the company like I owned it always.

That’s how I was brought up by my dad, you know, always put in a hundred percent, always work harder than what you get paid for. And that helped me, helped me show my worth here, but I always took on the things that people didn’t want to do. just, I leaned into, into all that and just built my worth and yeah, just kept, kept growing and, and the rest, rest is history.

Intrigue Media (03:01)
It’s awesome. And we’ll dig into it a little bit.

So then you got into, you’re doing some coaching presently still.

Brad Stephenson (03:07)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So I’m with Leanscaper as well. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that. Mark Bradley started Leanscaper. I’m an advisor for them on the people and operations side. I’ve been with them six months or so. It’s fairly new. Great organization. I love their mission. Very in tune with my mission of changing 100,000 lives. They just want to help, you know, founders lean down their business or lean up their business and

And really run a business to be profitable so they can make a living and possibly if they need to sell they can, but also helping, helping the, ⁓ the entry level employees, the apprentices get paid more as well. that’s kind of the overall mission of, of leanskaper. And I’ve been coaching. Gosh, I’ve been coaching forever, but for free, used to, I used to coach for free until my coach told me I got to stop giving it away. cause I just love it.

And I learned more, listen, I learned more from coaching. I think then what my people that I’m coaching learn, because there’s so many, mean, I know we’re going to go into it, you know, coaching the three to $5 million companies getting over that hump. I mean, that’s usually the hump. That’s the first, well, the first hump’s a million and the three to five is like, I like to sit in that zone. Cause that’s usually people, you know, you need to get the right people on your, in your company and build them up on a huge desk.

D I S C I’m certified in disc, but really understanding people’s personalities, but understanding how they communicate is really why I love disc. And I’m also working genius. use that for teams to see what people love to do and what they don’t like to do, and then put people in the right seats and not force them into something they don’t, they don’t, they’re not going to do well at. and they’re just going to hate coming to work every day. I try to, I try to get out of that. So.

Intrigue Media (04:52)
Yeah.

Brad Stephenson (04:55)
I’ve been paid for probably about six years of coaching. ⁓ so I have my own coaching business, but then I’m also a subcontractor for leanskaper as well. which I have some clients through them and it’s, yeah, it’s fun.

Intrigue Media (05:08)
⁓ Epic. And is it mostly in the landscape industry?

Brad Stephenson (05:12)
Yeah, so I have a, that’s funny. have a porter toilet guy that I’m working with right now. I love him. He’s just a young 21 year old. I just like, I love finding talent and just seeing a gift in somebody. And as long as I see something in them that I could bring out, I’ll work with them. But if, if you’re not willing to put into work and you don’t have, you don’t know what that is, I can’t work with you. ⁓

Intrigue Media (05:34)
Yeah, okay. So

you’re industry agnostic or do you focus primarily on landscape?

Brad Stephenson (05:38)
It’s mostly it’s mostly landscaping, I you know I’ve done some stuff in the cleaning field. Your service based businesses, but landscaping is the the main. The main, yep.

Intrigue Media (05:48)
is the core focus.

All right, cool. So knowing that you’ve been coaching all these companies to grow, know, the three to five million sometimes refer to the messy middle. Like they’ve grown enough beyond just having people help them. They’ve involved, there’s some systems involved. they have to become a bit more financially savvy. They’re starting to own a business or at least run one.

Brad Stephenson (05:57)
Yeah.

Intrigue Media (06:08)
You’re going to have a good perspective on this question. What is the primary growth constraint holding entrepreneurs back in the green industry?

Brad Stephenson (06:14)
I

really think I just wrote an article for Law and Landscape Magazine on this and it’s, I really think it’s benchmarking. I think people, I think with everybody putting their highlight reel out and you know, their ideal, I think there’s so many young companies at that two to three million that just think, I’m just never gonna get to that point. And it pisses me off. get, I really, do, it angers me.

Intrigue Media (06:37)
I can hear it, I can

hear it, I can hear it.

Brad Stephenson (06:39)
my gosh, I mean, it just angers me when people like these young, good entrepreneurs just feel like they’re less than because of these monsters showing their top line numbers, which mean nothing. Even gross profit means nothing. You have no clue how you’re how they’re measuring the numbers. Even net profit means nothing when you benchmark. It’s just to get a guide. But I think we hold

you know, these benchmarks and stuff to such a high standard. And it’s just not true. Like, like I could hold back owner salary. I could add back this, take out that and you’ll never know, but you just see it somewhere and like, well, I’m not there. Well, yeah, you are. You just haven’t really thought about it. So benchmarking is a gauge, but I truly believe right now that’s one of the biggest hiccups, especially the younger companies getting, you know, growing. the second is people, right?

I think getting the right people, to work for you with you and you stepping away. mean, that’s that three to 5 million. It’s letting go of the vine, you know, letting go of some of the responsibilities, making sure you’re delegating to somebody, that’s probably different than you. ⁓ it’s funny as I hired people, growing in Newcastle, it was always hiring people that were not, they weren’t the same as me. I hired detailed people because I knew I sucked at detail.

Like I wanted to surround myself with detailed people and that’s how we were able to grow. So a lot of times owners and entrepreneurs, they want to bring somebody on like them, or they’re trying to find like an exact replica. It’s the worst thing you could do. yeah, right, right. So a bunch of entrepreneurs in a room that could put you out of business. you want to get some, yeah, unhireable, right? That’s what I call myself. I’m unhireable, or unemployable. Um,

Intrigue Media (08:13)
They’re typically entrepreneurs.

He typically not the best staff.

Yeah.

Brad Stephenson (08:30)
But yeah, I think it’s people for sure. then you’re looking at, again, with social media and everything out there, I just feel like we get this false, this false sense and you start getting the self-limiting beliefs, the upper limit, whatever you want to call it.

Intrigue Media (08:45)
Yeah, so

let’s break that down a bit, because I want to get specific on this benchmarking idea. No one’s really brought this perspective to the table, and I think it’s really interesting, it sounds like you’re alluding to, and I’d love to get some clarity on this, of people see things that are out of reach, kind of. They’re like, I’ll never be able to get that. Their profit is net 18%, mine’s net four, therefore I’m running a shit business. I’m a shit entrepreneur, like that kind of thing.

Brad Stephenson (09:09)
yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Intrigue Media (09:11)
So then, so break it out a bit more, like, help me, what are people seeing? What are these benchmarks that are a little bit veiled, you know, like?

Brad Stephenson (09:17)
Well,

I think the one that everybody should look at is total revenue divided by people. Revenue per person would be the only thing, but nobody really breaks that down. They’re breaking down gross profit, net profit, all of that. So again, if you look at gross profit, well, I know that there’s groups out there that they won’t put certain things up above the line, equipment, whatever it may be, because this is not how they measure it.

And a lot of times they’re pulling out owners pay, you know, bonuses, anything they’re pulling that out of like the net profit side as well. So that overall net profit, you know, it means it like what like for for

Intrigue Media (09:59)
Oh,

we had a company ask if we wanted to buy them, and so we asked for their financials, and profitability looked decent, and so we went and met with them, and we’re like, what’s your pay? He’s like, I get paid $50,000 a year. I was like, how much do you make? Like, 200 grand a year. That’s an interesting perspective.

Brad Stephenson (10:05)
yeah, that’s

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s funny. It happens all the time. It’s not just in the landscape industries across all industries, but yeah, when you go in and do some due diligence and start really start really like digging into numbers, you’ll find this out. But I, know just with working with companies that have worked with other groups, they all measure things differently. So there’s no, like, there’s no scale. That’s just a set scale. And this is how you measure it.

Intrigue Media (10:28)
Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. So

when we talk to folks that are doing $100,000 per person, it’s usually like mediocre. $120,000 is pretty good. $150,000 is strong. $200,000 is out of this world. That’s what we see. Like, what do you see then, revenue per person?

Brad Stephenson (10:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, now, yeah,

the 150 is kind of where you want to be at for sure. I if you’re if you’re a little lower, it depends on what market you’re in and what you’re doing. But 150 is kind of the sweet spot for sure. So that’s that’s why I look at. if you look at that, if you look at the top 100 companies, start looking at how many employees they have and divide that out and see what they’re getting per person. And you might not feel as bad when they start talking about gross profit and net profit.

Uh, cause it’s all, I mean, it’s, it’s all smoke, like, and, and for what, you know, I think, you know, what happens is he has younger companies feel like, they got to keep ups and then they might tell a little bit of a lie and then they start not feeling good about themselves. And it’s, it’s all down now. It’s all downhill from there. So.

Intrigue Media (11:40)
Yeah, that’s not worth it.

I

think it’s a cool perspective though around like understand that there is a world that we live in that we’re running a business as an entrepreneur is inherently risky and difficult. And if you’re still squeaking out, you know, four or 5 % net net after a good owner’s pay, like it’s a worthwhile pursuit, not to mention the fact that you got another chance to swing the bat next year. Like, anyway.

Brad Stephenson (12:04)
Yeah, yeah, well, like

for us, like we do a lot with community. You know, we give a lot back and we count that in as our net, you know, at the end of the day, what are we left with after bonuses after after everything? I mean, that’s what we count as net profit and nobody else does. So it’s all those are all ad backs. Well, no, I mean, we’re going to do it anyway. I mean, that’s that’s how we built the company was community, community involvement, just, you know, helping people. I mean, that’s.

Intrigue Media (12:22)
Great.

Brad Stephenson (12:32)
That’s how we’ve grown as much as we have in a pretty short time. And we’ve been in business since 94, but from about, well, 2016, 17 on, tripled our, most tripled our income. So we did triple our income from that timeframe. But it was all people, processes, budgets, the stuff you need in place to run a business. mean, yeah.

Intrigue Media (12:57)
Yeah, the real stuff. So

what is the size and core focus of the company today?

Brad Stephenson (13:02)
So we’re 12 million ⁓ core focus. was a lot of maintenance. And we found when we started pulling our numbers that we’re only really 30 % commercial maintenance right now, which is not, that wasn’t our business model. But I think COVID, we have construction, landscape, mowing, turf, PHC, trees, snow. I think that’s it. Hopefully I didn’t miss anybody.

across the board, you know, we’re pretty, pretty even. I think through COVID, design build went through the roof and, we started getting maintenance customers on that residential side. So our residential side really grew and our commercial side kind of flatlined. It stayed the same. And we didn’t, we didn’t think that that was happening until we really dug in. My VP of marketing sales dug in. So we have a pretty good push on commercial, which everybody’s pushing on commercial maintenance right now.

so we’re not going to forget about the residential side either. ⁓ cause I think there’s an opening on that side, but maintenance is maintenance guys through 2008, crash. If it weren’t for maintenance, I remember calling clients and begging them for construction projects. There’s, there’s nothing out there. So we learned through that and just making sure we have some maintenance, commercial maintenance and, and residential, some, you know, some stuff there to help us if, you know, anything would come down the line. but we don’t run our business scared.

You know, we know we can get through anything. 2018, we didn’t get 25 H2B guys, which is a bit of a disaster. Two weeks before the mowing season started, we found out we weren’t getting our entire mowing division coming. Yeah. I hired 70 people that year. We were left with two at the end of the year. It was awful. I cried like almost every other day. It was probably every other day. It was so bad. we learned so much through that. I’m glad it happened because we installed a

Intrigue Media (14:36)
Jesus.

Ha ha ha ha!

my god.

Brad Stephenson (14:54)
At that point we were working with EOS, so we did say, know what, we’re going to do this and we’re just going to meet every week as a leadership team, pick the leadership team. And we met every week through our worst year ever. But thank God we did and it pushed us. You know, I think sometimes, you know, as owners and stuff, we don’t put ourselves up against the wall enough to make those key decisions. We make decisions when it might be easy. And I think a true measure of an entrepreneur or true business owner is

and make really good decisions in crisis situations. And I think we’ve made some really good decisions as a team, you know, through those crises. So.

Intrigue Media (15:30)
Yeah,

you can’t measure a captain by how well they sail on a calm day, right? Yeah. So ⁓ there was a lot there. But just one little piece, just because I hear all the time and never in a position where I can give someone a shake, but I’d just love to get your take on this because I hear a lot of times people say, yeah, we do design build. We don’t do maintenance.

Brad Stephenson (15:34)
No, no, nope. So yeah.

Intrigue Media (15:53)
And for me, just, I don’t get it because like you’re building this epic thing, you got a customer and then you’re gonna let the customer go. And the last time I checked, a really good business gets customers and keep customers. So what’s the, is there a reason to it or they just not figured it out yet and they really need to get on this maintenance train?

Brad Stephenson (16:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I think it’s not as exciting, right? So it doesn’t give you as much glorification on Facebook. so it’s, it’s, it’s that whole like, you know, what, what have you shown me lately? So those cool projects, man, on social media and all that look, they look awesome. So, you you’re going to gravitate towards those cool projects and they’re, they’re the pride, their pride’s getting in the way and they’re not, they haven’t gone through maybe what I’ve gone through in 2008 when you, had nothing.

So they don’t have anything to kind of measure off of. There’s, yeah, yeah, yeah. so like, you know, listen, I think there’s glory in everything we do. I mean, you can make it glorious. No matter what you do, you’re helping somebody. But those projects are pretty cool. But we just can’t go that route. Now, what construction did for us, design, build did for us, it brought a lot of employees in.

Intrigue Media (16:42)
Yeah, it’s just been glory days for the last like, whatever, 20 years.

Brad Stephenson (17:05)
A lot of our supervisors and upper level that moved up pretty much started in construction. but that doesn’t mean the mowing and turf can’t bring people up as well. But I would say like, they just haven’t experienced it. But man, if you have to every year, you have to get more work, the same work and sell new customers. Now there is a market out there that you’re just constantly building new stuff for people.

That’s a different market. So some of these design build companies are in the right, you know, ideal client profile. And those people aren’t going to, you know, when the economy crashes, if it crashes, like, yeah, they’re going to hurt a little bit, but they’re still going to have money. They’re still going to want to do projects. So if you’re in that circle, like it’s that repeat build, that’s almost like a renewable service, right? It’s just, yeah, it really is. And yeah.

Intrigue Media (17:52)
Yeah, it’s like a construction maintenance. It just happens like every three to four years or something.

Brad Stephenson (17:57)
Yeah, if you think of like Frank Mariani up in Chicago, I mean, we went to visit him three or four years ago. I think he got up to 50 million before he sold and it was pretty much, you know, all design build, but he was in that network of people that just always wanted new stuff. And yeah, I think if you get in that area that it works. ⁓ but if you’re not in that area, you need some type of renewable income or else you’re going to be hurting at some point.

Intrigue Media (18:17)
Right.

That’s what I figured anyway. Okay, I didn’t mean to get caught. I wanted to get back to this people point of view. So we talked about the idea of benchmarking to help get people’s minds rights around like what is possible and the fact that like just because you haven’t figured it out doesn’t mean you should give up. Then there’s this people part that’s like holding entrepreneurs back, having good people come in that wanna work with you, work for you.

Brad Stephenson (18:26)
no. Yeah.

Intrigue Media (18:44)
Like break that down, what does that look like? How does that come to life for somebody who’s like, yes, I do need people, but every time I find good people, they leave or like I’m running into this, whatever. There’s a bunch of issues that come around this.

Brad Stephenson (18:48)
Yeah.

yeah,

it does. they can’t do it as good as me or whatever. that’s, yeah, the founder syndrome, right? That’s real. I’m not a founder though, so I didn’t have it.

Intrigue Media (19:03)
If

anything, you proved to the contrary.

Brad Stephenson (19:06)
Yeah,

right, right. And they hired me and that was a, I could tell you that’s the best move they ever made at that point because I mean, did help you in my humble opinion. I am home, but now I mean, it’s like the right people, you know, and then good people hang out with other good people. And then they start bringing more people in everybody, all of our 85, 90 employees. have like one or two, they’re off the street. They’re all recommendations. The two that I was left with in 2018.

Intrigue Media (19:13)
In your humble opinion.

Brad Stephenson (19:34)
They brought more people over and now H2B, 10 guys. You know, we need 10 guys and we help them get their green cards. But the people, so you just have to identify, like you can’t be everything. And I think a lot of times when we’re founders and we’re growing these companies and we hold so tight, like it’s my baby, you don’t want to let anything go. And you just have to realize what you might not be good at and really do some self-reflection and then hire what you’re not good at.

Make a list. I have people do this all the time. Two weeks activity inventory. All the things you do for two weeks on 15 minute half hour increments. Write it down. And then at the end of the week, each week, just look at that list and what gives you excitement and what doesn’t. Whatever doesn’t give you excitement, circle it and then hire that out somewhere or another. Either outsource it, subcontract or hire, spring somebody in. Cause I think working with subcontractors and outsourcing stuff is

just like hiring somebody, they should fit your core values. And core values are super important. We hire, fire, promote off of our core values. That’s how you find those good people. Core values aren’t, they’re not related to gross profit, net profit, and getting jobs done on time. That’s not part of our core values. It’s who they are as a person. And if you’re hiring people for who they are as a person, and the skill set is something you’re not good at,

I don’t think you can go wrong. I yeah, you’re going to make mistakes here and there and just quick the fire. But I think really understanding what you’re weak at, what you don’t like to do. And here’s the deal too. Everything you don’t like to do. Most of us will give things away that we love doing because we feel guilty of giving something we don’t like to somebody else. Like why would we give somebody that pain? The thing is, there’s a lot of people out there that like the shitty stuff you don’t like. Like that’s what they live on. Yes.

Intrigue Media (21:24)
and they hate what you love.

Brad Stephenson (21:27)
It’s amazing how it works. We’re all different. And that’s where the disc really helps me understand how people are wired and where they would best fit in the company and how do we create those positions for them as well as you grow. yeah. Yeah.

Intrigue Media (21:39)
Well, and then, you layer working genius on top of disk. You’ve got a pretty robust profile

of where someone’s gonna excel or at least feel great when they’re working.

Brad Stephenson (21:48)
Yeah.

Yep. Yeah. And there’s another one I forgot. Predictive index. No, is it predictive index? I think it’s PIPI. That’s a good hiring tool for sure. That’s kind of a blend of the both. But yeah, I like to use them. I don’t put people in boxes though because people are people. It just helps you understand what they might like and then how to communicate with them.

Intrigue Media (22:11)
Yeah, I mean, I hear that. And I also find that there are specific disc profiles and working genius profiles that are skeptical. So they hate being diagnosed into a box. And that’s okay. But so there’s a couple of things that you’re kind of talking about here that is really interesting because like you kind of mentioned the idea that you had three to five million, you still maybe have an iron fist on the business and you got to learn to let go in order to get great people to come in. And there’s this

Brad Stephenson (22:19)
Sure, yeah, yeah. yeah, yep.

Intrigue Media (22:37)
You know, there’s this, it’s like a double edged sword. I can find some great people, but if I’m not ready to be a great leader, they might not last that long. So like from your perspective, if you had to pick an order, do I have to make, do I have to make me a better leader first? Or do I find great people that gives me the space to go become a better leader?

Brad Stephenson (22:58)
And I think it never stops, right? You never stop becoming a great leader. You never stop looking for people. it start, can’t, I’m still learning, right? And I’ve been doing this for a really long time. Since I was 14 years old, I’m 51 right now. So like I’ve been doing the landscape thing for a really long time. Find a mentor, find a coach, find an advisor. Like that’s where you need somebody out, an outside view, directing you, helping you through some of that stuff. I had mentors.

I had people that stepped into my life at the right times. I’m a firm believer in that, that they came into my life. had my head up above water that I could see why they were there and I leaned into them and they helped me grow. But you need to, you need to have some humility to be able to listen to somebody else, tell you some really hard things. I mean, my coaches and mentors, mean, they’ve, they’ve told me some rough things. didn’t want to know about myself, but if I wouldn’t have really allowed them to do that, I,

It would not be where I’m at today. had one 20 years ago when I started at Newcastle as a CFO of the company at the time he hired me. But then he brought in ⁓ Dennis McAtee, who’s this probably like 18 years ago. He was one of my first like true coach mentors in the company. Man, I was in the field. I was working in the field. He taught me sales. I learned, I taught myself design. And once I got into sales and design,

And sorry, moving my way up and the CFO was teaching me the business side. I learned so much in such a short period of time, but I could have been cocky and said, you know, I don’t need to know that. What do I need to know about your business? I’m just out here, you know, working on working my tail off. Well, after you have two back surgeries and then you can’t work anymore and you’re, all broken. It’s like, well crap, I’m glad I started this early because now I got something to really lean into.

Intrigue Media (24:40)
Right.

Brad Stephenson (24:48)
Because I did, had two back surgeries, I was addicted to Vicodin in my 20s, we could go on and on. But I had some major surgeries and thank God I had some people in my corner that taught me some things beyond the working in the field. And that’s for owners too, I wasn’t an owner at that time, but still I treated the company like I owned it. So it was super helpful.

Intrigue Media (25:04)
Yeah.

So then I think there are, to oversimplify putting people in a box, there are lifelong learners of leadership who believe it as a journey and a study forever. Yourself, I would put myself in that box. And there are other people that are like, I give paychecks, why do I need to be a good leader? What does that even mean, good leader? Come in, do the work, get the job done, leave, get paid, repeat. We run into this all the time.

on a Zoom call or at a show or at a meeting, I can’t tell somebody they need to be a better leader for their people problems to go away and that they have to look in the mirror. It just doesn’t go well, you know, in a sales environment. But with you as a guest and everybody listening to this, what would you say to somebody that might need to start considering their level, like leveling themselves up as leaders? And if they decided they want to, what could they do?

Brad Stephenson (25:59)
It’s funny, because I just had this exact same conversation at a show last week. Somebody was complaining about their employees and it’s all their fault. I give them all this stuff and I ask a lot of questions because usually it stems from how they grew up. Usually it stems from those types of people that just, you know, I give them a paycheck. They just need to work hard.

Usually it’s, it’s from ages two to 14, however they were raised, usually single parent home, uh, dad that might’ve been a little aggressive. It always ties into some psychology, right? Uh, it’s funny, like I’m a landscaper, but I’m also, I’m not, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but there is psychology behind all this stuff. So I ask enough questions to get down to root cause. And then I start building them up from there and then asking them more questions for them to self discover.

I can’t just tell somebody, hey, you gotta do better. I gotta get them to believe and understand why they have to get better because of what happened to them in their past. If they get better, it heals them too, because they’re in pain. So it’s more about asking a lot of questions. So how could somebody do that out there? It’s reaching out to a really good coach or advisor. I think I am a good coach.

Intrigue Media (27:07)
Right.

Brad Stephenson (27:20)
You have, if you work with me, you gotta be willing to get into the dirt. because that’s where I’m going to start. I want to know everything before I started building you up. I want to know what the foundation looks like. And if I’m not building the foundation, this, this skyscraper is going to fall over. ⁓ so if people are just answering your questions, here’s, this is how you find out if you have a good coach, if they’re just answering your questions as the, you ask them, they’re not a good coach. If.

Intrigue Media (27:36)
No doubt.

Right, they’re not facilitating

learning.

Brad Stephenson (27:48)
No,

no, if they’re asking more questions and you’re doing like 70 % of the talking and they’re they’re 40 or set 30, like that’s the way it should be. If they’re doing 80 % telling, that’s not a good coach. That’s a zero in leadership is when you’re telling. So it’s all about asking those right questions. And when you get with a coach like that, you start learning how to ask your employees questions and not just answering.

their questions, you ask them more questions, they self discover, and now they have a sense of worth because they figured it out themselves. You kind of knew where you want to, you know, kind of knew in the grand scheme of things, where you wanted things to go, but it’s going to be their own way. But it’s that skill set and you never learned it because you just busted your ass for how long your head down just getting stuff done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I get it. I mean, yeah. And you needed it. It’s just now you got to think differently. What got you here won’t get you there. ⁓

Intrigue Media (28:36)
Yeah, sheer grit, determination, and will, yeah.

That’s the class and

it’s so true, especially in this. So let’s just say someone does recognize that maybe they’ve got some people issues, some self issues and they want to become a better leader. A coach and advisor is good. What is something else that maybe they can start doing actively that’s something that they could.

Brad Stephenson (29:03)
Sure.

Man, I’m a big ⁓ audible. Just listen to some books. Leadership and Self-Deception is a great book. It’s a great leadership book, and it’s a parable. So it’s a story. And it talks about, know, if you have a problem, you’re the problem. Like, if it’s a problem in your life, like seriously, you just got to look yourself in the mirror and just helps.

Intrigue Media (29:15)
That’s the best, yeah.

I’m not gonna sugarcoat this.

Brad Stephenson (29:27)
Like lay out a story and it really is. It talks about a guy in a workplace and you he was blaming all his employees for stuff until he started asking questions and understanding and the different nuances where people came from. It made him start really realize that holy crap man this whole time it was it was me. It had nothing to do with them. It was all me and until you get to that point it’s it could be a little rough. And yeah, it’s going to be a little rough like it just is because if you’re.

If you’re a confident entrepreneur that you busted your butt and you’re out there working and nobody works as hard as you, great, congratulations. It’s time to graduate. Now, how can you actually grow a business that doesn’t need you? mean, that’s what I do with, yes, like I can, yeah, 100%. And that’s what I do with Leanscaper. Like my goal is to build, and even my own stuff, to build leadership teams and build a company.

Intrigue Media (30:12)
Because that’s a business.

Brad Stephenson (30:25)
where the owner doesn’t have to be there. And it still runs when the owner’s not there. That’s a sure sign of a business, if they have to be there.

Intrigue Media (30:31)
Yeah,

100 % because that’s a job, right? And a good job, nothing against it. know that it’s a job not running, I mean it’s running a business not owning a business, I guess is what I’m trying to say. So yeah, I think as people graduate through this thing, for me it was, I read the 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth.

Brad Stephenson (30:35)
Yeah.

No!

Sure. Yep.

Intrigue Media (30:51)
15 irrefutable laws of leadership. That’s what it was. John C. Maxwell, was a of the mirror. was like things happen in your company because either you model it or you settle for it. And I was like, God damn, it’s all my fault. That was kind of like my slap in the face. then you graduate from that, you’re like, OK, cool. I’m now dedicating myself to a lifelong journey of learning leadership and becoming the best leader I can because the better I am, the better I can attract people that want to follow.

Brad Stephenson (30:53)
Yeah. Yeah, ho.

Yeah.

Intrigue Media (31:19)
But then you get into something like you mentioned before about core values, which is often thrown around, you know, superfacetly, I can’t even say it right now. And there’s like, you know, some work put into it, but they’re usually not authentic. And so what’s your take on core values? How does somebody go about installing them, not just naming them?

Brad Stephenson (31:42)
Yeah, I mean, for us, geez, I mean, it took us three years to really get it to stick. And it’s not just words on a wall, right? Our core values are CIA, easy to remember, care, improve attitude. Super simple. So many times people overcomplicate core values. A little exercise I do with people, think about your best employee that you just love. And what if you had like 30 more of them?

Well then list out some of their traits that you love about them and that could help you get the core values. Three to five max, right? But when we first started the core values, our leadership team came together, we picked an employee and we came together and said, this is what we want as core values. That’s nothing to do with net profit, nothing to do with gross profit. Doesn’t mean we don’t want to be profitable, but you don’t get there if you’re worried about it, right? You need the right people. So picking it as a leadership team,

And then listen, every, we had meetings every Friday, their company meetings, and whoever could recite what our core values were, we just handed out gift cards in front of everybody and did that for a year, constantly, you know, gave it out. And then, so now we’re running level 10 meetings with every department. So now at the beginning of each meeting, everybody has to list off somebody that showed our core values and what did they do? So the very beginning, Hey John, he did this.

You know, he showed that he wants to improve and just constant. We’ve been doing that for two years. It’s just this constant talking about it. We reward people, our employee of the month, every month that we would pick somebody. The supervisor lists out all the core values and how that person showed the core values. That’s why he’s the employee of the month. Not because he killed his jobs and then made a bunch of money. It’s because he showed core values. So when you’re, when you’re celebrating people, on our review forums, it’s on our goal forums.

Intrigue Media (33:37)
Yeah, so

you’ve got it embedded. It’s tradition, it’s routine, it’s ceremony.

Brad Stephenson (33:39)
yeah, but it takes time.

Yeah, it’s all that, all that. you cannot, as a leadership team and as an owner, you can’t pick core values you ain’t going to follow. know, yeah, it’s like, be careful because as you pick them, people are judging you now and they’re watching you no matter what. And if that’s, if you, you have to live them and if you don’t live them, don’t even put them out. It’s a, it’s a waste of time. Then if you can’t live a core value and then you have to look internally and see what you have to change, you know, what needs to stop in your life right now.

Intrigue Media (33:52)
Right.

Brad Stephenson (34:13)
that’s not going to serve you well in the future. Yeah, so.

Intrigue Media (34:17)
Yeah,

and to kind of hear, don’t even go there. Try to make them authentic as possible. was one exercise we were doing with a bunch of folks over, this was many years ago when we were kind of helping with this type of stuff, was like, what makes you really angry? Like, what makes you shake your head and go, how could they do something like that? And then it’s like, what is the opposite? Because that’s usually like somebody crossing the core value line that you just can’t handle, like it makes you just, your blood boil. And so it’s just like another perspective. Because I think to your point,

Brad Stephenson (34:20)
⁓ they have to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Intrigue Media (34:44)
If it’s not authentic, it’s hard to live by. If it’s hard to live by, they all kind of fall to shit.

Brad Stephenson (34:47)
Oh, yeah,

it’s all bullshit. know, then you’re just blowing smoke up people’s asses. Nobody loves doing that. And listen, and it helps you like letting people go to and here’s the deal. Like you bring them in and you tell them how they’re rating and you have 15 days to change. And it’s amazing how most people don’t even know how they show up and you’re at least they have no clue. So. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Intrigue Media (34:54)
No, no.

Right, so they only… So you’re giving them a chance to win by setting them, by shooting them straight and giving them some clarity.

Brad Stephenson (35:16)
It’s the kindest thing you could do. If you’re talking behind somebody’s back and you’re not gonna confront them, it’s an easy way to take the emotion and out, hey, we’re measuring you on this, this is how you showed up and this is why, and I need you to correct in 15 days. We’ve done that, gosh, probably six or seven people and six out of seven had no clue, no clue that that’s what was coming out, because they didn’t know it. Nobody told them. Everybody said stuff behind their back, but never…

ever told them and they’re still working for us. So, yeah.

Intrigue Media (35:47)
Yeah, that’s cool. I think that

goes a long way. We’ve seen that a lot here too, where someone is struggling. And then I’ve asked them like, what does winning look like in your role? Like how do you win here? Like, I don’t know. I’m like, okay, well let’s fix that first. Then you got a chance to play the game, right? Anyway, okay, this is awesome. in terms of someone wanting to reach out and get ahold of you, what’s the best way to do that?

Brad Stephenson (36:02)
That’s a good one.

Yeah. Yeah.

Man, I am on LinkedIn a lot. And on LinkedIn’s my website as well. You can fill out a form. But I’m living on LinkedIn. My wife and I are co-chairing our local United Way campaign this year, which is a heavy lift. And so I think my central communication, not email, it’s LinkedIn right now because my emails are blowing up. I need an assistant or something. ⁓

Intrigue Media (36:26)
amazing. Yeah.

You

Brad Stephenson (36:38)
But yeah, LinkedIn. Just look me up on LinkedIn, shoot me a message, get on my website, fill out a form, and I’ll contact you. And then check out Leanscape or two. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but what Mark Bradley’s doing and what we’re doing there is pretty awesome helping the industry. And it’s fairly new, but we’re definitely moving in the right direction.

Intrigue Media (37:01)
Yeah, they’re about a year in. Yeah, we’re an advisor on that with them as well. And we were at the revenue intensive in Scottsdale. was awesome. Yeah. Okay. You mentioned leadership and self-deception. What’s another resource or a podcast or a speaker that kind of inspired you?

Brad Stephenson (37:03)
Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Well, John, talk

John Maxwell for sure. everybody communicates few connect. That’s a good one. Especially if you’re speaking, you know, really you’re always speaking, but if you’re not connecting, they’re not hearing you. So everybody communicates few connect. That’s a good one. And Jim Rohn, Jim Rohn, ⁓ he’s not alive. He, I think he died in the eighties, but he, he’s like, he’s awesome too. And there’s a, there’s like a collection that I listened to.

Intrigue Media (37:36)
Love that.

Brad Stephenson (37:49)
once in a while, it’s just basic principles. It’s all leadership principles, but he really digs into it. It’s very relevant now, but he’s another one I’ve listened to. Simon Sinek, you know, obviously, yeah.

Intrigue Media (38:00)
Yeah, I mean these are the best of the best though. I mean,

Brad, what you’re sharing with people are like, sometimes I think it can be difficult for someone to start, to start the journey. Cause it’s like, there’s so many options. ⁓ Jim Rohn though, timeless classic, you are the average of the five people you hang out with most. That’s paraphrasing, but that is essentially a mantra I have in my subconscious, my unconscious mind, hopefully now. it’s Simon Sinek, John C. Maxwell. Yeah, I mean they’re bad ass, so we’ll make sure we list them.

Brad Stephenson (38:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah.

Intrigue Media (38:27)
appreciate you man, if anybody wants to reach out, Brad Stephenson on LinkedIn. Well I have to do this again, I have so many questions I want to ask you right now, but for the sake of time I don’t think I can. I just want to say thanks for doing it.

Brad Stephenson (38:39)
Absolutely, thank you.

Intrigue Media (38:40)
I gotta find my mouse, we’re good.